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From: burton@inuxg.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
Subject: Re: Creative use of Spells
Message-ID: <261@inuxg.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Jan-84 16:44:36 EST
Article-I.D.: inuxg.261
Posted: Tue Jan 17 16:44:36 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 18-Jan-84 07:38:32 EST
Organization: AT&T Consumer Products Div., Indianapolis
Lines: 93

Here we go again:

	The Xorn tried several manuvers to get out of its situation.
    The first was to cut off the string.  This worked for about 12
    seconds until the owl got another string.   The next thing it tried
    was to pull on the string until it reached the end, and bat on the
    owl.   Unfortunately the owl just let go before it was able to
    get all the way up, and when the end of the string fell down, the owl
    simply grabbed it again.   Then the Xorn tried yanking on the string
    to try the pull the owl within reach...  the string was yanked out
    of the owl's grip.  The Xorn tried throwing a clod of dirt at the
    owl (handily provided by the DM behind the Xorn's ear), however the
    players were able to convince the DM that a Xorn is not practiced
    throwing dirt, while hanging upside down from a string, and so got
    a -8 modifier to the roll; it missed.   The owl was forced to make
    a saving throw vs Poison (against it's fatigue poisons) to keep from
    pooping out.    The reason why the Xorn did not phase through the
    string, is that the referee did not think of it..... and I highly
    doubt that a Xorn in that situation would be able to think of something
    the referee did not.   (Also, if you read the spell discription,
    it says that it affects the WEIGHT not the DENSITY -- so the Xorn's
    density control did it no good).

I still say that your DM didn't run the Xorn right. A Xorn's ability
to phase through objects is an instinct; once it discovered that
it was being pulled aloft by the string, it should have instinctively
allowed the string to pass through it by phasing out. I don't understand
your last comment. The Xorn's density control is unaffected by the
spell Feather Fall; it can still phase through things in spite of its
near weightless condition. All it really had to do was to phase through
the string, float downward (since nothing was pulling it up any more)
until it reached the ground or until the spell wore off, then either
escape into the ground or else become solid again in order to attack.
One other point (preceded by a question): was this Xorn out in the
open? Xorns are underground creatures. What was it doing outside in
the open? They prefer caverns and stone, munching on precious metals
deep in the earth.

	The entire point of the previous, is not that the Xorn did not
    have a chance to get out of the predicament, but rather that a first
    level spell should not be so powerful.   Another example of problems
    with this spell, is the old "hook a big one" technique:  Find a Whale,
    harpoon it, cast Feather Fall, lift it with a Tensor's Floating Disk.
    Carry it onto dry land.  Get Treasure.
 
Are you considering range, duration, saving throws, etc in all of this? Those
factors are supposed to be the things which keep a spell from being
so powerful. Besides which, the point of this argument may be moot: after
reading the spell Feather Fall, a different interpretation could be that
the spell only affects the downward motion of the recipient. Thus, IF
you were falling, your downward rate of motion would be reduced to
(whatever the number is) inches per minute; however, the spell does not
affect your weight at all (sort of like an invisible hand which gently
lowers you for the duration of the spell). As I remember, the spell doesn't
last very long anyway.

Besides Steve, as Prof. Kingsfield (of "The Paper Chase") once said, 
"in Contract Law, you must not merely consider the Content of the contract,
but also the Intent of the parties involved." This is true of AD&D as well.

>>  Sure, the rules have holes; I never denied it. A good DM, however, will
>>  know how to fix them without always resorting to rewriting the rules.
>>  What other game systems do you play (just curious what your comparing
>>  AD&D with).

	You are right.   However, AD&D (and Traveller) seem to be two systems
    that takes so much work to fix, that by the time you finish fixing them,
    you no longer have the same system.   This is called the Variant technique,
    and I don't like it.   As a Gamemaster, I like systems which are complete
    and debugged, BEFORE I buy them.

You didn't answer my question: which games do you play besides AD&D? Are 
they complete and debugged? AD&D was and is meant to be framework within
which you develop your world. D&D is even looser than AD&D; AD&D gives
more hard and fast rules for lots of nit-picky things. If something
isn't covered fully in the rules, it is left up to the DM to expand
on the rules for him- or herself (somewhere in the DMG it says that, but
I can't quote chapter and verse). Yes, it could be called Variant technique;
the Dragon is full of articles containing Variants, expansions, etc. If you
don't like doing this, that's your business. ALL FRP and SFRP games have
inconsistencies, bugs, holes, etc.; some have more than others. If you
are saying that AD&D has more than any other game, I contend that it
is because it tries to cover more than the other games.
(I know I'm going to get blasted by all the Runequesters out there for
that last statement).

Since Steve didn't bother answering my rebuttal to his Psionics statements,
I won't go on anymore on the Medusa or poisons either.


			Doug Burton
			ATT-CP Indianapolis
			inuxg!burton