Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site bbncca.ARPA Path: utzoo!linus!bbncca!wdoherty From: wdoherty@bbncca.ARPA (Will Doherty) Newsgroups: net.motss Subject: MORE MISCELLANEOUS Message-ID: <503@bbncca.ARPA> Date: Sun, 22-Jan-84 02:30:23 EST Article-I.D.: bbncca.503 Posted: Sun Jan 22 02:30:23 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 22-Jan-84 04:29:53 EST Organization: Bolt, Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, Ma. Lines: 107 To: Randwulf (genrad!mit-eddie!rh) I don't consider Playboy to be a resource on the morality of crossgenerational sexuality, heterosexual or otherwise. I think that anyone who can figure out how to get to the voting booth and pull the levers has the right to vote (as long as each person gets only one vote of course). I think people should be able to get married at the age of 14, or at any age, if they so desire. I worry about children who don't have knowledge of pregnancy and contraception engaging in sexual activity. In crossgenerational relationships (or any heterosexual relationships for that matter), I consider this (contraception) to be the responsibility of the more knowledgeable (generally the older) partner. Perhaps if you had started having sex before you were 18, you would have had more experience sooner and you would have been able to understand more of the "implications" earlier. Or maybe the "implications" just would have been different. But anyway, I certainly agree with the right to celibacy mentioned by another contributor, and that includes a right to be free from harassment for a sexuality which certainly doesn't require too much consent from others. As far as most of the rest of your comments go-- Well, let's face it, flames fall in one of two categories: reasoned or unreasoned. I consider category 1 worthy of reply. That means category 2 ain't worth the trouble. But when you consider yourself glad that you're not gay because you "would feel compelled to hunt down all of the members of NAMBL [sic] for giving people of my persuasion a bad name," I think you should consider two things: 1) Many of us lesbian and gay folk may be glad to have a person of your insight refusing to identify with us. 2) Many participants in crossgenerational sexuality are straight (i.e. your sexual orientation). The only reason crossgenerational lovers expect lesbians and gays to better understand our oppression is because lesbians and gays have had to suffer similar oppression by similar segments of our society (don't worry, I won't mention any names). To: Laura Creighton (utzoo!utcsstat!laura) I agree that we should "drop the age restriction (which isn't gonna work anyway, people being as they are) and teach kids how not to be manipulated through force or guilt" at least to the extent that that is possible. I also believe in penalties for those who force sexual acts on anyone. That indeed is the "unacceptable platform." To: P.Heisler (wjh12!hocsj!pph) wrt: "You should have also put that in net.jokes." No. To: "Lance" I agree that "a child can be severely crippled emotionally by a traumatic sexual experience with a trusted adult." Instead, I would recommend *healthy* sexual experiences with adults if both parties so desire. Indeed it is unfortunate that in some cases, even today, resurgent barbarism in our society sometimes makes people transform their healthy opinions of their healthy childhood sexuality into shame at such "despicable" activities. No question that incest may hurt children terribly. But with a responsible parent, and within a responsible society, I see no reason why a bit of healthy sexual expression between mother and child, father and child, or between siblings, should be any problem whatsoever. Such expressions are common in a variety of cultures worldwide (refs available upon request). As to your last sentence, that gets filed into the unanswerable abyss of category #2. To: Dave Sherman (decvax!utcsrgv!dave) We want to give any two-year-olds who are capable of making it to the polls the right to vote. Age should not be a qualification. Day-old babies must have the right to move out of the house. Sometimes their parents have the gall to beat them. As soon as they are capable of realizing any alternative, they should request the appropriate aid from the appropriate agency (which today does not exist in anything approaching a proper solution to the problem). Now, beating a baby--that is child abuse, but hide the bruises a bit and don't break any bones. Then it's legal. Hell, the teachers can do it without risk of retribution in the public schools. NAMBLA does not intend to lower the age of consent. NAMBLA proposes to *abolish* the age of consent. I barely have time to respond to the first round and Steve Dyer's already begun the second. When my fingers recover... Will Doherty decvax!bbncca!wdoherty