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From: dap@ihopa.UUCP (afsd)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: More on the Midianites (groan)
Message-ID: <141@ihopa.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 13-Jan-84 22:14:49 EST
Article-I.D.: ihopa.141
Posted: Fri Jan 13 22:14:49 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 15-Jan-84 00:08:44 EST
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Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
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Dave,

I am interested to hear your explanation of the reasoning behind the rape of
the Midianite women and the killing of the children.  How is this plainly
vengeful slaughter analoguous to a woman who sacrifices one son so that the
other may live?  Just exactly how does the mass rape contribute to the good of
Israel?

Another point that you seem to keep making which I can't agree with is that
Hell is not like a concentration camp since people "volunteer" for it.
Hey, I don't necessarily believe in the Christian God, but I most DEFINITELY
am not volunteering for eternal torment.  Even if there is such a God, at
worst I am making a mistake.  If a man were given a choice of two doors, one
of which holds certain death, would you claim that he "volunteered" for that
death if he opens the wrong one?  Would you hold the entity who forced him to
make that decision blameless since, in the end, the man had "made his own
decision"?  The worst the man did was to make a mistake.  If the man was given
a book which had been written thousands of years ago and had been interpreted
in a thousand contradictory ways through the years by people who often gave
the appearance of trying to ignore logic in order to give their interpretation
validity, would you blame the man if he ignored what it said about the doors?
Especially if much of the book was made up of fanciful miracles? If there were
other larger groups which didn't hold that the book was true?  If the man saw
no evidence for the validity of the book and in fact saw what he interpreted
to be facts in contradiction to the book?  Would you claim that he 
"volunteered" for his fate if he chose what all his senses told him was the
right door?  Would you then claim that he had made an "immoral" choice when
he opened the wrong door?

Dave, if I'm wrong about God, I made a mistake.  That's all.  I don't feel
that I am (and I feel that there are too many contradictions in the Christian
view of God to allow his existence), but if I am, why would such a God
choose to put me in eternal torment for this mistake?  This is very convincing
evidence (to me) that such a Christian God doesn't exist.

But supposing that God for some reason DID want to segregate undesirables like
myself.  Why is Hell necessary?  Why couldn't he just set me down on some
tropical isle with plentiful food and water?

Let me anticipate your answers.  You might say to seperate out my influence
on the residents of heaven.  Well, at that point I don't see how I could be
especially troublesome against an almighty god and anyway, that end would be
achieved when I am safely tucked away on the isle so I don't think that
would be your reason.

You might say to punish me.  For what purpose?  Revenge?  Almighty God takes
revenge on Darrell Plank!  Doesn't seem very sensible, besides, why would a
loving father take revenge on his errant son?  He might try to correct him
but if he had an ounce of love in him, he wouldn't in any sense call it
revenge.

Maybe you will say to deter others.  This argument doesn't make much sense
either.  First of all, I don't BELIEVE in hell so how can it be a deterrent?
This seems to be the case for most people.  I can't believe that anybody who
is actually sure of hell would transgress very far.  People seem to be put off
by much more tangible things like stocks and lashes than hell.  Besides, if he
really wants to DETER people from sinning he can use a positive inducement
instead of a negative (a few miracles would serve nicely) and keep a lot more
people out of hell.  The stock answer here is "But God doesn't want to FORCE
people to love him".  If this is your answer, then you have just supplied
another argument why God wouldn't use hell as a deterrent.

I can't think of any other reason for hell unless such a God enjoyed watching
people in agony but this is not in accordance with the idea of a loving God.

So what's the sense behind all the agony in hell?  It sounds more like fallible
human beings describing the things which they would like to see done to those
who have the audacity to disagree with them.

Darrell Plank
BTL-IH
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