Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site gatech.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!grkermit!masscomp!clyde!akgua!gatech!owens From: owens@gatech.UUCP (Gerald R. Owens) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: The Other Side of the Fence Message-ID: <3079@gatech.UUCP> Date: Mon, 2-Jan-84 16:20:01 EST Article-I.D.: gatech.3079 Posted: Mon Jan 2 16:20:01 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 4-Jan-84 02:46:52 EST References: <340@abnjh.UUCP> Organization: Georgia Tech School of ICS, Atlanta Lines: 90 **************************************************************** "Men and women have a problem realizing that, in courtship, neither side has an absolute advantage over the other." Although the word "absolute" is always a bit extreme, I agree that there are problems in seeing the other side's problems. However, I cannot help but notice that the author noted that men's lifespans are shorter than women's at the end of his article, so it's probable that if there is not an absolute advantage, the balance is pretty heavily tipped to one side... The women's, so called, problems: 1. Waiting for a MOTOS to make the first move. Granted, this can be frustrating, but the reluctance to break "societal training" in this day and age of "women's lib" leaves me cold. Besides, in talking with older (>40 yrs.) women, it turns out that the practice of "setting one's cap" to get a guy appears to have been practiced quite widely, especially in Europe. The reluctance to try or think of imaginative ways to get somebody's attention is informative. I have heard of guys being straightforward about asking a girl out, only to be labled a jerk. Possibly this reluctance to try is born of a form of projection?? Of an awareness of how tough they make it for the guys and so an understandable fear of getting the tables turned on them?? I have viewed, with considerable amusement, the rising panic in the voices and faces of ladies at a college I used to teach at when "reverse weekend" approached, and THEY had to make the first move, totally unfettered by "Societal training" in this particular instance. Alas, the lesson did not stick, and I have viewed, with considerable anger, the the hypocritical whinings of "not being asked out" when I knew full well the efforts that the menfolk were undertaking in order to do exactly that. 2. Turning down a man who is a nice person without hurting his feelings. (note, by the way, the two extremes of the problems. #2 does not necessarily follow from #1.) This is mainly a problem of communication, in my view. One can be turned down and be made to feel less than nothing, and so rightly consider the "lady" as being a villain. And one can be turned down very considerately, and can walk away feeling that one's person was recognized as being of value. Any woman who worries about this problem for more than five minutes isn't going to have the problem, for it reflects a depth of consideration that will be percieved by the other party. If she's worried about how everyone else is going to think (alas, women's lib hasn't progressed this far as yet!), then she will inevitably bungle the job. The second type of women are just bad memories, the first type make me happy that there are some wonderful people in the world, even if I can't date them. The problems of the men are: 1. Having to make the first move. I have no complaints about the views expressed in the original article. If women's lib included some version of men's lib also, so that the burden of making the first move can be shared more equally, I'd be all for it. 2. Facing rejection. (note, by the way, that #2 is ALWAYS a possiblity of #1. The two problems are not at extremes, but quite related. Also, it hooks in with #2 of the previous section. The fact that 3 of the four alleged problems are related indicates to me that the problems of the men are more fundamental.) Although I feel that women DO sense the pain that is involved (#2 of the previous section), I do not think that the sheer REPETITIVENESS of rejection is fully appreciated, or probably ever will be. I remembered making a rather pointed comment about this to a class I was teaching, and a girl came up afterwards and scolded me about being so bitter about man-woman relationships. Her boyfriend stood slightly behind her as she launched into how mad she got against guys at times. Well, I asked her how recently her last fit of anger was, and it appeared to be after she had been going with her boyfriend for quite a while. I cut her short, saying "Well, you had a reason not to be mad, but you were anyhow. I have no reason not to be mad, and I AM mad!" (which I was for the next several hours.) I think that there has been a rapid flight away from viewing consistency as a virtue. As one venerable netter has remarked before, "I have no respect for a woman who demands equal rights, and yet refuses to meet me half-way.". My personal attitude is tending to extend that lack of respect to the female sex in general. Not needing an asbestos suit (from lots of practice handling inconsiderate rejections Gerald Owens at Gatech