Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!seismo!hao!hplabs!sri-unix!postman@UCLA-CS From: postman%UCLA-CS@sri-unix.UUCP Newsgroups: net.space Subject: Undeliverable mail Message-ID: <15231@sri-arpa.UUCP> Date: Mon, 9-Jan-84 06:29:32 EST Article-I.D.: sri-arpa.15231 Posted: Mon Jan 9 06:29:32 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 11-Jan-84 03:07:48 EST Lines: 392 From: Mail Handler ===== POSTMAN output follows ===== AERROR - (n < SLOCKTRIES) CAN NOT GET LCK.SEQL mailers/ucla: error writing to UMAIL "v.Burris": not delivered ===== unsent message follows ===== Received: from S1-A by SU-AI with TCP/SMTP; 9 Jan 84 03:03:34 PST Date: 09 Jan 84 0303 PST From: Ted Anderson Subject: SPACE Digest V4 #85 To: SPACE@MIT-MC Reply-To: Space-Enthusiasts at MIT-MC SPACE Digest Volume 4 : Issue 85 Today's Topics: Interstellar travel -- will it happen? Challenger Moved to VAB Mission to Mars -- planetary chauvinism Palaces and Pyramids on Mars? Re: Interstellar space travel -- is it possible? BC-REVIEW-ASTRONOMY 2takes (Undated) Re: Astronaut requirements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 8 January 1984 14:25 EST From: Herb Lin Subject: Interstellar travel -- will it happen? To: dietz%usc-cse @ USC-ECL As I think I pointed out in my last msg to REM, I retract my comment about interchange, but let me respond to your comments anyway. From: dietz%usc-cse%USC-ECL at SRI-NIC I don't understand this objection. What is "interchange", anyway? Interchange is informational, social or commercial intercourse. Communication? Trade? And why should wanting to establish this "interchange" be the only possible reason people could want to undertake I.S.? It certainly isn't the motivation for the US planetary exploration program -- curiosity (& pork barrel politics) is. In the current climate, no one would send a probe without a way of getting information back from it. The only question is how long it would take. Can you imagine a current political leader authorizing a probe that would take a million years to report its findings? It wasn't the motivation for the Pilgrims to come to America. It wasn't the motivation for Magellan to circumnavigate the world. True enough on the Pilgrims. Are you suggesting that space will become a haven for those that are oppressed and persecuted? Then you have to find a way of funding the trip, and oppressed and persecuted people usually have a hard time getting money. Magellan? Would he have gone if he had essentially no hope of returning in his lifetime, of his children's lifetime, or his great-great-great... grandchildren's lifetime? I think not. The fact that the data from these observations would take years to reach earth is unimportant, since there's no other easy way to gather it. You have a far greater faith in the long-term perspectives of humans than I do. Given that it is nearly impossible to get Congress to even consider two year appropriations for ANYTHING, you are talking about a climate for scientific inquiry that I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams. One can easily come up with other motivations. Political or religious rivalry, for example. Some religious systems today have builtin dogma that serves to increase the number of members of that religion (catholicism vs. birth control, for example). A religion that had as one of its precepts the idea of interstellar colonization would also be self propagating. Motivation here could be that holders of certain belief systems desire to have many others agree with them; what better way to do that than to fill up the galaxy with 10^20 true believers? Now this is something I had not considered. You're right about this one. Religious fanatics will do anything. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 84 16:53:24-PST (Sat) To: space @ Mit-Mc From: harpo!eagle!allegra!alice!alb @ Ucb-Vax Subject: Challenger Moved to VAB Challenger was moved to the VAB today in preparation for STS-10. ------------------------------ Date: 8 January 1984 23:26 EST From: Robert E. Bruccoleri Subject: Mission to Mars -- planetary chauvinism To: space @ MIT-MC I also read the Technology Review article on the manned mission to Mars and was deeply disappointed by it. If that turns into NASA's next big space project after a space station and lunar station, it will be crowning waste of effort, opportunity, and time. Like pyramids and palaces. Now that I've got everybody hot under the collar, let me explain what I mean. The biggest problem with a manned Mars mission right now is that it doesn't return very much to earth (so it'd be horrible politically, and we should learn that lesson from Apollo), and most importantly, it won't get many of us into space (I really want to go into space once before my life is up). It's an end unto itself, it doesn't establish much of an infrastructure for doing much else in space, and it could be blown away with a turn of the political wind. The amount of money involved for that Mars mission is probably adequate to get a space settlement started a la O'Neill's High Frontier. His idea being that all you really need to start a settlement that can house thousands of people and build enough solar polar plants to replace earth-based generated electrical is a lunar mass driver, an LEO to L5 (or so) mass driver shuttle, a chemical separation plant for processing lunar ore, and a general purpose manufacturing facility of fairly small capacity. The key point is that the manufacturing facility first be used to construct another separation plant and manufacturing facility (expensive or specialized components would come from earth so the space based technology required is not great), and then one would repeat the doublings enough times until you could crank out anything big you wanted. Settlements, solar power stations, ships, thousands of people living in space, plenty of energy for people on earth, no limits to growth, and no way to stop our exploration and use of space. Plus, a Mars mission would be a piece o' cake. Another point that the Technology Review article assumed was that manned bases should be planets. In fact, it would be cheaper and easier to build a base in space where you don't have to worry about gravity or weather or nightfall. If man does succeed to evolving to a space faring species, he will probably spend most of his time in structures of his own creation in free space because that's where most of the opportunities will lie. ------------------------------ Date: 08 Jan 84 2216 PST From: Ted Anderson Subject: Palaces and Pyramids on Mars? To: space@MIT-MC CC: bruc@MIT-ML I must agree with Robert Bruccoleri's objections to the Technology Review article about a manned mission to Mars. The shorted sightedness of the so-called space-scientists has always annoyed me, since it is one of the few serious divisions among the space enthusiasts. However, I haven't really worried about it until this recent message reminded me that the President's science advisor Keyworth has chastized NASA for not being sufficiently visionary. I have some faith that the NASA administrators will not fail us in this matter it is worth thinking about. In anycase it is probably worth writing a few letters to Technology Review to let them and their readers know that not everyone thinks that Mars is the obvious next step. Cheers, Ted Anderson ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 84 19:38:27-PST (Sat) To: space @ Mit-Mc From: ihnp4!cbosgd!cbscc!cbneb!cbnap!whp @ Ucb-Vax Subject: Re: Interstellar space travel -- is it possible? The motivation for reproduction should not be defended logically. Actually, humans (and I suppose other animals) do not select goals in a logical or even rational manner; in this respect the image many people have of themselves is false. Humans are *not* rational beings, instead they are rationalizing beings. The difference to me is that a ration being would chose completely logical, rational goals and carry them out in a logical and rational way. A rationalizing being choses goals to satisfy biological urges, but attempts to reach that goal through logical means. There is not defensible, imperitave motivation for manned exploration of the universe, but then there is no defensible logial reason for the continued existence of mankind either. The urges to explore, gain territory, etc., are similar to the urge to reproduce. These urges are programmed into our genes and historically seem to have been good survival traits. So it is probably true that many years from now these "stay at home" stick-in-the-muds will die out of the gene pool. I am sure that interstellar will happen despite the arguments of these people when enough people *want* it to happen. W. H. Pollock ------------------------------ Date: 09 Jan 84 0001 PST From: Hans Moravec Subject: BC-REVIEW-ASTRONOMY 2takes (Undated) To: space@MIT-MC n044 1217 08 Jan 84 (The Week in Review) c.1984 N.Y. Times News Service ASTRONOMICAL HIGHLIGHTS OF 1983 - A STELLAR YEAR Old Data Yielded New Insights, New Instruments Unveiled Ancient Phenomena and Earth Waved A Very Long Goodbye to the Satellite Pioneer 10. Earth's rotation is erratic, usually slowing, rarely speeding up. As a result, scientists must insert ''leap seconds'' every few years to keep world clocks in step. An extra second was added last year on June 30. The minute beginning at 7:59 EDT that evening was 61 seconds long. It was the 12th such second to be added since these kinds of adjustments began in 1972, when two leap seconds were added to the year. The variability in the rate of Earth's rotation is believed to be caused by a number of factors, including friction in the planet's atmosphere, in the oceans and in the core. Without much hoopla, the standard for defining all units of length in the world was changed by the General Conference on Weights and Measures in Paris. What has this to do with astronomy? For one, the definition affects the units of force, wavelength and radio frequency. For another, the new standard is based on the speed of light, in part because time-measuring methods are far more precise than those applied to distances. For many decades, all length measurements were based on the meter as defined by the distance between two scratches on a platinum-iridium bar stored in a vault at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures at Sevres, near Paris. Since 1960, length measurements have been based on a more accurate and more readily available standard - the wavelength of orange light emitted by the gas krypton 86. Under the new system, one meter is defined as the distance traveled by light through a vacuum in one-299,792,458th of a second. SOME STORM -A reanalysis of data from the two Voyager spacecraft that passed Saturn revealed recordings of a peculiar static. Astronomers said it was the mark of a gargantuan atmospheric lightning storm 40,000 miles long, wrapping a sixth of the way around the planet (almost twice around Earth) and lasting at least 10 months. -Information collected by Soviet Venera 13 and 14 landing craft, together with data from orbiting Pioneer Venus spacecraft, indicated that Venus should join the list of volcanically active objects in the solar system. The list includes Earth and Jupiter's moon Io. -Triton, a satellite of the planet Neptune, may have a near-global ocean - not of water but of liquid nitrogen. Scientists at the University of Hawaii in Honolulu announced that spectral data had provided ''the first direct evidence for an ocean on an extraterrestrial body'' - that body being Triton. The other leading candidate for an ocean is the Saturnian moon Titan, whose seas are thought to be 70 percent ethane, 25 percent methane and 5 percent nitrogen. SOLAR SIGNS The appearance of twin dust rings around the Sun, hypothesized as early as 1927, was recorded by Japanese astronomers over Indonesia during a solar eclipse. Scientists had theorized that cosmic dust spiraling in toward the Sun would begin to glow as it grew nearer and would continue to do so until close enough to evaporate. Given the geometry of the dust spiral, the glow seems brightest at the outer and inner edges of the zone. The picture was obtained with a video system suspended from a balloon and a computer-based enhancement process. The glowing region lies 900,000 to 1,500,000 miles above the solar surface. Scientists calculated the distance from the Sun at which the inner dust disappeared and used it as an indication of the ring's vaporization temperature. From this, they guessed that the dust is a silicate comparable in composition to quartz. ASTEROID ALERT Asteroids have struck Earth in the past, hurtling from space with such speed that they vaporized on collision. Astronomical and geological observations showed last year that large asteroid collisions can still occur. More than 50 asteroids are known to be in orbits that might send them charging into Earth, and recent samplings of the asteroid population signal that the total number of Earth-threatening asteroids may approach 100,000. Asteroid fragments weighing about 500 tons plunge into the atmosphere, on average once a year, but usually break up before hitting the surface. STAR LIGHTS Infrared Astronomy Satellite, an orbiting observatory launched last January and now out of service, discovered that the star Vega is surrounded by a giant disk or shell of material. Scientists at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory of the California Institute of Technology hailed the discovery as the first direct evidence of solid objects orbiting a star other than the Sun. Some astronomers suggested that the shell may be an early planetary system in formation. Vega is near our solar system, only 26 light years - or about 156 trillion miles - away. It is the brightest star in the constellation Lyra (the Harp) and the third brightest star in the night sky. It is thought to be less than a billion years old, less than one-fourth the age of the Sun and its family of planets. Vega's properties have turned it into an astronomical measuring piece on which scientists train instruments to test equipment sensitivity. That's what astronomers were doing with IRAS when they found the Vegan shell. Data from the infrared satellite also indicate that cool, solid material may be orbiting the star called Fomalhaut, the brightest star in the constellation Piscis Austrinus and one of the 20 brightest in the heavens. It can be seen in the winter sky with the unaided eye. THE UNIVERSE... A new variation on a recent theme of the cosmos' formation, the ''inflationary universe,'' was unveiled. The revised inflationary model postulates, in part, that the universe did not start with a big bang, but bubbled up out of virtually nothing and then suddenly inflated to astronomical proportions. Dr.Alan H. Guth of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology proposed the first inflationary model several years ago. Meanwhile, cosmic surveys by the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, along with some fancy computer modeling, led cosmologists to picture the current universe as a piece of Swiss cheese, with the force of gravity making particles of matter clump together into long filaments and flat, pancake-like structures. Between these areas of dense matter are bubbles of largely empty space. The model assumes that neutrinos, atomic particles thought to constitute about 90 percent of all matter in the universe, have some mass and therefore clump together. ...AND BEYOND Pioneer 10, the satellite launched March 3, 1972 from Cape Canaveral, Fla., left the outer limits of the planetary system. No human artifact had ever traveled so far. Its next stop - no one knows. According to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, ground-based antennas should maintain communications for eight years more, to a distance of five billion miles. Scientists hope that in the time remaining the satellite will detect gravity waves, the gravitational radiation that in theory emanates from cataclysmic events, such as exploding stars, but in practice has not been found. When it does turn a blind eye toward Earth, the craft will carry on with a message for passersby - a plaque engraved with images of a man, a woman, Earth's location and some terrestrial scientific ABC's. In November 1988, the satellite Voyager 1, which was launched five and a half years ago, will become the first spacecraft to cross the orbits of all nine planets in the solar system. (Pioneer's path took it outside Pluto's orbit.) Voyager 2 and Pioneer 11 are also swinging out beyond the outer planets. METEORIC RISE The Murchison meteorite, which fell on Australia in 1969, gave up one of its greatest secrets - that it contains the five chemical bases of human genes. Scientists at the University of Maryland's Laboratory of Chemical Evolution said their detection of the bases - precursors of life - and their ability to synthesize all five in a single experiment simulating primordial conditions on Earth, boosted the theory that terrestrial life arose by comparatively simple, natural chemical processes. Their success further suggested that life may have arisen by the same processes elsewhere in the universe, wherever the appropriate conditions existed. COMET TRIALS A new comet, named for its discoverers Sugano-Saigusa-Fujikawa, and passing unusually close to Earth, was discovered as another comet, IRAS-Araki-Alcock, receded from Earth. IRAS-Araki-Alcock passed within 2.9 million miles of the planet - closer than any other comet since 1770. Sugano-Saigusa-Fugikawa came within about 6 million miles. Astronomers also estimated that the total number of comets roaming the outer reaches of the solar system, beyond the outer planets, may be at least 2 trillion - far more than the 100 billion previously imagined. The recalculation resulted in part from the discovery of several comets traversing the inner solar system. Most comets were thought to be slowly circling the Sun far beyond the outer planets. Finding these inner system trespassers hinted that other comets are nearby successfully escaping detection from Earth. nyt-01-08-84 1521est *************** ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 84 21:00:00-PST (Sat) To: space @ Mit-Mc From: decvax!genrad!security!linus!utzoo!watmath!looking!brad @ Ucb-Vax Subject: Re: Astronaut requirements In-Reply-To: Article <15152@sri-arpa.UUCP> It interests me that all astronaut requirements ask for people in the peak of physical health. Now, while there is nothing wrong with good health, I think they should deliberately send up people with average health. (I am not referring to the astronauts but rather to the mission specialists) All these space-sickness experiments being performed right now are going on with prime physical specimens. We need to find out what the effects of space are on out-of-shape people, too. Thus people should not be rejected from the mission specialist program just because they don't run twenty miles a day. -- Brad Templeton - Waterloo, Ontario (519) 886-7304 ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest *******************