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From: holt@parsec.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: prisons - (nf)
Message-ID: <4942@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 16-Jan-84 23:06:14 EST
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.4942
Posted: Mon Jan 16 23:06:14 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 18-Jan-84 06:28:16 EST
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#R:ccieng5:-22600:parsec:45000002:000:4856
parsec!holt    Jan 15 15:12:00 1984

I don't know where you come from, but I certainly hope most of the men
in this country don't share your attitude/opinion about rape and violence.

Let us consider several points you raised in your note.
1. You seem to feel that the physical damage suffered in "minimal rape" is 
   trivial:
>As a matter of fact, I have been mugged.  I have been sexually assaulted.  In
>both cases I suffered some physical damage(not serious, but considerably more
>serious than the damage a minimal rape implies).  Big deal.

First let me say most rapes are not "minimal".  Very often the victim is also
beaten, stabbed, mutilated or just flat outright killed.  I don't consider that
trivial.  But even in the "minimal" case there is still the extreme discomfort
of lesions on the skin in a very sensitive area.  That is a big deal!

2. You seem to categorize rape as a very insignificant act, and indicate
   that how the individual reacts to this act is solely the responsibility
   of that individual:
   
>if a person reacts to a rape, indecent exposure,
>bad joke, or a gift of flowers with a mental breakdown, that is the weakness
>of the victim, not the sole fault of the assailant.
>Only in the first case has
>the assailant actually committed an immoral act: he has rubbed a portion of
>his skin against the skin of the victim without the victim's permission,
>and has detained the victim for awhile.  If the rape was vaginal, risk of
>pregnancy is also involved.

I'm going to take this in two parts. First the act of rape is not merely
one individual "rubbing" his skin against that of a victim.  "Rubbing skin",
to me conotates a rather gentle motion.  Being forceablely fucked is in no  
way gentle.  I'm not even going to get into the issue of why men have
this desire to "rub" certain parts of their skin on certain parts of
womens skin.  Let it suffice to say that if it is skin on skin contact that
they desire, then they should rub their skin with their hand.
The "risk" of pregnancy is not trivial either.  Many rape
victims take a high dose of estrogen (I think it's this one) immediately
following a rape, in order to reduce the "risk" of being pregnant.
Taking one of those pills is something like going through rabies shots.  
They make you incredibly sick for a significant period of time.  Then there
are the women who don't believe that they will get pregnant or those that just
don't believe in abortions.  They end up pregnant and have to incur all
the risks of pregnancy.  (which even in this day and age is non trivial -
pregnancy still ranks in the top ten as causes for death among women of
child bearing age)  ALL of this risk and physical discomfort is incurred 
to satisy the urge of some crazed male to "rub" his skin against hers.

Let's move on to the most absurd observation in your entire note.

3. The feeling of violation, and is it justified in the victim of
   a rape.

> "feeling of violation", though, is a burden the victim
>places on himself.

Let's establish some interestion facts here.
1. Rape is the only violent crime that is sexist - how many times
   do you hear of a rape trial where a man is accusing the woman
   of raping him??

2. In how many cultures has the vagina been the womans most important
   attribute? Woman who were raped in some cultures were considered 
   spoiled, the rapist had to pay the father damages for spoiling 
   property, the woman could not marry and was considered an outcast.

I'm going to try to cut this short - but basically, even in our 
enlightened/modern culture today - women are still viewed as "unclean"
by many males after a rape.  Additionally, we are raised to view our
genitals as extremely personal property.  Witness the fact that most
clothing conceals the genitals.  That pornography exists...
AND in the USA we are raised to believe that we are free to do whatever
we choose AS LONG AS our actions do not interfere with the rights of another
individual.  A rape violates the very foundation of many of our beliefs.
It is perfectly justified for a woman  to feel vicitmized after a rape,
NOT just because of her personal reaction to the act, but because our
basic beliefs have been violated as well.

To conclude: Some men are more able to understand a womans feelings
than others.  You are obviously not one of those.  Let me put into words,
that I think you may be able to comprehend, my opinion of rape and rapists.
Personally, I will try and kill the next man who tries to rape me,
and as far as the law is concerned I think casteration is the solution
to rape.

Disclamer: I got into this conversation late.  I cannot find the 
original note to which you are responding.  So, I may be discussing
the wrong subject.  However, your attitude was so sick I thought it
deserved a reponse in and of itself.

charisse
{allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs}!parsec!infoswx!charisse