Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site opus.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!seismo!ut-sally!opus!rcd From: rcd@opus.UUCP Newsgroups: net.audio Subject: Re: Linn-Naim Seminar (long) Message-ID: <212@opus.UUCP> Date: Fri, 9-Mar-84 18:31:29 EST Article-I.D.: opus.212 Posted: Fri Mar 9 18:31:29 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 17-Mar-84 23:58:24 EST References: <13100006@hpfcla.UUCP> Organization: NBI, Boulder Lines: 74 <> > 2. Extra speaker in addition to the normal stereo pair. Most people > thought that the change that occurred when the other speaker was brought > into the room was incredible... > They claim that > other transducers will have a similar effect, though not as strong. For > example, telephones, televisions, clocks, etc. As a matter of fact, > they requested that everybody remove their digital watches before the > demonstration, and they would hold on to them in the next room... In other words, you can't use their systems successfully in rooms which have any of these devices. Lame excuse. Telephones are of the same ilk as speakers, maybe, but they are passive elements and don't really have anything to store energy. Clocks?!?!?! <> What these guys are doing is trying to prepare enough excuses so that if their systems don't perform, they can give you a reason without blaming their equipment. <> If you want to find real gremlins for sound reproduction, consider the difference in reflective properties of a window with drapes open and closed, not to mention the various resonant modes of a window. (Glass is highly elastic.) Remember that these speakers and such sitting around the room can't reradiate any more energy than impinges on them (Tanstaafl's law). There's the inverse-square law once on the way from the real speaker to the passive (gremlin) speaker and a second time on the way from the passive speaker to you, plus the damping of the passive system squared (once going in, once coming out again) - if you analyze it a little bit, you'll come to the conclusion that you already knew: It jest don't matter. Maybe there IS some phenomenon related to other speakers, but they haven't explained it with the store-and-reradiate myth. I'd like to hear the explanation for digital watches...sure, there are transducers in a watch, but so what??? Even the human ear/brain subsystem is an electro-acoustical transducer system. Are you going to tell me that when listening to their equipment, the Linn people don't use their <> > 5. LP vs CD. The amount of bias present in this demonstration was even > greater than in the previous one, and almost unbearably so... > Casey also always played the supposedly 'better' item second, and this > did not impress me as unbiased demonstrating... As much as I dislike this game, I've also seen it played in reverse. When Listen Up (a Denver "high-end" audio dealer) first presented the CD players in a large demo, they did an A-B with an LP first and the CD second. They played the CD a good 3 dB louder than the LP - a trick which I thought belonged to schlock stereo outfits of the "blue light special" class. (In case you don't know, with two systems of even roughly comparable quality, the one played louder will invariably sound better.) But they did it anyway, and they got away with it for about half the audience. It certainly didn't go unnoticed, though; I heard a lot of people muttering about it after the presentation. > I don't side with either the digital folks or the Linn people... AGREE!! It seems to me that you can safely stop listening as soon as an audio salesman starts either praising or cursing CD's. I almost said "you can walk out of the shop as soon..." but then you'd end up walking out of most shops. I'm finding a fair number of articles in net.audio that should also be posted in net.consumers. I have been looking for a dealer who can deal honestly with competitor's products. That is, if he carries brand x but not brand y, and I ask him about brand y, I don't want to hear unsubstantiated pejorative mumblings. I'd be happy to hear "It's good equipment; we just decided not to carry it because we can only carry so many lines and do a good job." Since the Listen Up demo I mentioned above, they've been working with local radio stations to get airplay for CD's. That's a fair enough idea, but it's gone to extremes. They're getting long interviews with the president of Listen Up. They've done entire weekends of CD-only music. Every time they play a cut from a CD, they let you know, and about half of them end with a plug for Listen Up. Now, I'd like to get a CD player eventually, but every time I get a little more of the abrasiveness from this local dealer, the date that I buy one gets a little further off. Why can't we get back to the idea that the purpose of the audio system is to present music. The end is the music, not the technology for presenting it! (Marshall McLuhan, bite your tongue...) -- {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd