Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site sdccsu3.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdccsu3!kenn From: kenn@sdccsu3.UUCP Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Re: abortion decisions Message-ID: <1758@sdccsu3.UUCP> Date: Sun, 22-Apr-84 22:48:38 EST Article-I.D.: sdccsu3.1758 Posted: Sun Apr 22 22:48:38 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 24-Apr-84 00:44:48 EST References: <2339@tektronix.UUCP>, <6351@gatech.UUCP> Organization: Organization? I'm supposed to be organized?? Lines: 85 >From moira: > So abortion should be illegal because *some* teenagers are not > mature enough to make an informed decision? There is obviously nothing > in their belief systems that tell them it is WRONG, so "it must be ok" > for them. >From Owens: I thought that that was the purpose for making laws. To restrain those who do not know better to not behave in a way that more mature people know is counterproductive. Southerners merrily violated the civil rights of the blacks merely because there were no "laws" against doing that. We know that is counterproductive, although at the time it was being done, it was quite profitable for southerners to do what they did. >From Me: (!) Actually, you are a bit confused about what is being talked about here. What your example is about is restricting people because they are violating a moral taboo. What Moira is talking about is restricting people because of someone else violating a moral taboo. Your example, though creative, does not apply. Should we be responsible for the mistakes of our own kind? America forgave the Germans for what the Nazi's did. The Negro's forgave the southern whites for what their fore-fathers did. The forgiven in those examples weren't held responsible for what others of their kind. Why should I, a teenager, be made to pay for the mistakes or carelessness that other teenagers do? What does their responsiblity have to do with mine? >From Moira: > The majority of American adults (~80%) believe that this is a matter > which should not be legislated by the government. It is a political > issue merely because the remaining minority seems determined, via the > political process, to force their system of values on the rest of us. >From Owens: So was slavery at one time. If the fetus is not human, then granted, it should be a personal decision, but if it is, then abortion is murder and the state has every right to step in and preserve the civil rights of the fetus. Remember, there have been times and places where the majority was quite wrong. >From Me: And there have have been times and places where the majority was right! This country is a democracy, spelled D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y. Majority rules, with fair conditions attempted for the minority. When the two clash, minority looses. What the 80% of the population think about abortion does not matter with if they want to decide think about it themselves!!! I like the 80% figure -- I haven't heard it before, Moira is it accurate? If so then the anti-abortion'll loose anyway, or their laws will die out like the squeal law. Pro-choicers can breathe a sigh of relief. Also Owens, what does the human/nothuman fetus binge have to do with who decides on abortion? It is not related in the slightest, unless you concluded that pro- choicers would win if people could make their own decision, so that would only be right if you won in the first place (ie fetus not human). Lets not stoop to dirty fighting please! Anyway, back to abortion decision and all, I had an interesting thought a while back: who has the right to decide abortion? The people involved, ie parents? Perhaps their families? Perhaps the doctor? And how about the geatricities: Ronnie for instance. He'll *NEVER* as I can see it have a need for abortion for the rest of his life (which is a rather short bet anyway). Should he decide? How about all the married folks about fortish who've got a visectomy or for one of the parents. They'll never have to, either. On a reverse note, the promiscious would probably be the people most needing the abortions. Should they have a larger vote? Feel free to flame and comment and put up ideas, but PLEASE don't say "this is right" because all that does is create another bland basenote. Put reasons 'n stuff to juice things up. Anyway, for my juice, I feel it's best to stick to the "everyone votes" concept. We're a democracy anyway, and while the decision won't affect everyone, no one has a right to say who and who won't be affected (idealism & 1984-shock). As for the "won't effect everyone", I would think there are lots of careful and "proper" people out there who won't even kiss before marriage. An extreme, but an "everyone" is easy to break -- all it takes in an example. Kenn the Kenf ...!sdcsvax!kenn ...!sdcsvax!sdccs6!ix192 ...!sdcsvax!sdccsu3!kenn