Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site burl.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!floyd!harpo!ulysses!burl!wjb
From: wjb@burl.UUCP (Bill Buie)
Newsgroups: net.comics,net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Marvel Comics, Jews and Other Ethnic Groups (Ciaraldi)
Message-ID: <432@burl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 11-Apr-84 10:28:06 EST
Article-I.D.: burl.432
Posted: Wed Apr 11 10:28:06 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 13-Apr-84 01:21:07 EST
References: <393@ihuxt.UUCP> <6119@rochester.UUCP>, <402@ihuxt.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Technologies; Burlington, NC
Lines: 72

--
>>I was simply curious about Non-Jewish opinion on Marvel's treatment of
>>ethnic groups.  So far I have not seen any replies from members of the
>>ethnic groups which Marvel seems to have targeted.  A lot of Italians do
>>appear in Marvel comics but I have not seen any particular Italian
>>cultural issues featured in any Marvel magazines.

>>I did not expect Non-Jews to understand exactly what a Jew might find
>>offensive.  I often do not understand why Blacks find certain books like
>>Huckleberry Finn offensive but I tend to accept their statement that the
>>books are offensive.

I am Black.  I consider myself to be neither "mainstream" Black
(meaning that my sense of identity is neither overwhelmingly tied to
the color of my skin nor to sense of identity somebody else Black may
feel) nor like the Blacks I see portrayed in Marvel Comics.  It is
my observation that most of the "ethnic" qualities I find in Marvel
Blacks are not much like the ethnic qualities in Blacks I've known. 
Does that qualify me to answer Martillo's (sp?) question?

I suppose that I am more like the assimilated Jews than the (I don't
know what to call them, but I refer to the group of Jews who are not
assimilated and feel like Martillo), but here goes.

I was offended by the treatment of Blacks in Huckleberry Finn because
 1) It was a very serious piece of literature
	and
 2) I was going to school with a lot of white kids who had (like,
obviously) never had any direct contact with any "real" Black person
in their lives (it was a private school -- a lot of them had lived
sheltered lives).  These kids behaved and talked like they thought
that stereotypes they had been fed were what Blacks were supposed to
be like (talk about ignorant!).  I didn't get along with those kids
really well.  I have less a reaction now that I have a little more
maturity and experience behind me.

I don't think Marvel deserves such a reaction from me because,
despite all claims, it is not on a par with Hucklebaerry Finn when
it comes to being taken very seriously by a substantial number of
people.

I accept the fact that Marvel, being predominantly white, is not
going to portray my ethnic group from my perspective.  I also
recognize that even if John Romita was editor-in-chief they probably
wouldn't portray my ethnic group from my perspective.  People are so
different that it is effectively impossible for any individual or
group of individual to come up with any definitive statement about
the behaviuor of such a large group of people and be accurate.
This is why I think that Martillo is way out of line in thinking
that he or anybody else is in a position to decree the behaviour of
the definitive Jew.   That's most especially true when apparently
most people who claim to be Jews agree to the common treatment.

Incidentally, I also agree that it would be enforcing a stereotype
to have problems between Kitty and Peter.  Although inter-racial
relationships are rare, I have no particular objection to Misty (?)
and Danny Rand, or Deathlock and his former wife.

I think it is quite possible to object to something in Marvel, just
not enough to justify what Martillo wrote to Marvel or posted to the
net.  For example, I do object to the portrayel of Christianity in
Marvel.  But I recognize that most of the people there probably
don't know what the Bible says about the morality of many of their
characters, and therefore could not intelligently be expected to
write as if they did.  I don't flame Marvel for it, I've just
restricted my buying (approaching nil, now), reading net reviews
(almost as good as the comics, and cheaper), and studying the Bible
with my neighbors.  One on one interaction is the solution to stuff
like this, I think, not the the approach taken up by Martillo.
-- 

				--Bill Buie