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From: wbpesch@ihuxp.UUCP (Walt Pesch)
Newsgroups: net.flame,net.politics
Subject: Unions, onions, and things... The Saga Continues
Message-ID: <725@ihuxp.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 18-Apr-84 16:58:10 EST
Article-I.D.: ihuxp.725
Posted: Wed Apr 18 16:58:10 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 19-Apr-84 04:35:11 EST
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Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
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Gee, Ken, that last one was so good that I almost agreed with you,
started singing "Just look for the Union Label", and started toward
the car to go blow up a telephone switching station in honor of last
summer's telephone strike.  Luckily, sanity returned.

For the bystanders:  This eternal flame is in regards to the eternal
in net.flame in regards to management/employee relations.  The current
fork of the river of flame that is being traveled is whether unions or
management should be blamed for the downfall of the blue-collar work
establishment in America.  Ken's stand:

> Yes Walt, if those pesky US steelworkers would work for $1.50 an hour,
> you could still pick up your tin plate hot off the press downtown. 
> But alas, our workforce (organized or not) enjoys a very high standard
> of living, and the industry is too preoccupied with its new portfolios
> to be bothered making steel.  Who's responsible?  No matter what Ronnie
> may say, even if he never lies, there is no single blame nor single
> answer.

According to Ken, it is the greed of the management that does not
allow manager's to keep the American plants in the most modern ways.
However, we can not accept this Democratic buzzwording and jingoism.
I will admit that it is the management's decision as to whether the
ledger says to continue the expansion based on the profitability.
According to you, management is a spiteful being who are solely out to
exploit the masses.  Ken, that is Bull Shit. 

Do you seriously consider management would close plants if they were
profitable?  

Now, lets get to why the plants are no longer profitable.  Raw
material prices I suggest are roughly the same in the US as they are
in Japan.  Since Japan is mineral-poor, they have to shipmost of their
raw materials in.  We of course have higher costs in getting and
transporting (I'll explain where we get these higher costs from
later.)  Plant costs have to be roughly the same, for though we have
surely depreciated our plants by now, we will be maying higher costs
for modernization.  This leaves labor.  This is the reason for our
inability to compete with Japanese products internally, much less
internationally.  Therefor we don't make a profit.  Therefor and ergo,
the plants close.

I will not say that unions are evil in the idea nor in practice.
However, they are a protected commodity by our government.  They are
not governed by competiton.  Unions, truly a business themselves, have
an unfair advantage over management in that they are bargaining from
the advantage of laws enacted when unions where needed.  Let's put
unions back into the free market (along with all forms of business)
and let supply and demand back into action.  I think we have had the
chain of Keynsean Economics long enough.

By the way, when you want to reference something like:

> And now they've thrown in the towel.  In some places the workers are
> trying to buy the old plants instead of seeing them closed down.  I
> read of one instance, though, where the company refused, even though
> the workers made the highest offer.  

Please do us the favor of citing your references (e.g. National
Enquirer or Pravda, April 1).  Facts are all so more believable when
we know what reputable rags you are quoting from.  I would like to see
why any company refused the highest bid - probably because it was
still under a reasonable enough offer.


                         Ain't this the reason they call it net.flame?

                                          Walt Pesch
                                      AT&T Technologies
                                     ihnp4!ihuxp!wbpesch