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From: robison@eosp1.UUCP (Tobias D. Robison)
Newsgroups: net.flame,net.books
Subject: Re: Humanism, Christianity, and Nazism
Message-ID: <819@eosp1.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 26-Apr-84 13:18:32 EST
Article-I.D.: eosp1.819
Posted: Thu Apr 26 13:18:32 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 27-Apr-84 05:22:20 EST
Organization: Exxon Office Systems, Princeton, NJ
Lines: 64

References:

It's worth thinking VERY hard to try to understand what made nazism
possible.  Trying to blame it on Christianity would require a lot of
supportive evidence.  I think the charge is unthought-out, and unfair.

Many of the best writers of twentieth century have been wrestling with the
rise of nazism.  They go into a lot more depth than a short note to net.flame.
I would recommend reading several works by each of the following writers
(doubtless other authors will be suggested as well):

	- Heimito von Doderer
	- Heinrich Boll
	- Gunter Grass

Boll and Grass are German, Doderer is Austrian.  Many of their works are
available in goos English translations.  All are writers of fiction.
In addition, I would highly recommend the early films of Jean Renoir,
particularly the one (its name escapes me) about escape from prison in WWI,
a legitimate candidate for best film of all time.

All of Europe was strongly affected by the fall of its aristocracy in WW I.
Europe went through a period (say, 1880 through 1930) where there were
extraordinary differences between subsequent generations, and unusual
failures in leadership as a result.  The loss of youth in WW I was also
devastating for many European countries.   I received my best impression
of the gulf between geenrations just preceding WW I, from Doderer's
"Waterfalls of Slunj".  For fictional studies of the
effects in England, read works by these authors (most of whch are hilarious
as well as revealing): E. Waugh, Anthony Powell, Henry Green.

One of the most interesting coincidences that has been pointed out is that
the countries most susceptible to facism (Italy and Germany) had the shortest
history of democratic institutions.  Whereas France and England, for example,
developed the main institutions and governmental structures to support large
democratic states in the late Middle ages and Renaissance, Italy and Germany
retained early feudal tiny-state structures much longer.  If there is a causal
relationship here, it may be that solid democratic institutions take hundreds
of years to develop.  On this subject I would recommend some of the
non-fictional historic studies of the late middle age by J.R. Strayer.


The Germans who brought about WW II were an extraordinarily peculiar lot.
I don't think people sufficiently appreciate the following contrast --
there have been many times when one group set out to kill every last member
of another group.  In recent times we have witnessed attempted genocide
in Africa and Asia on a very large scale.  But the Germans were peculiarly
thorough and crazy about their attempt.  What other genociders were willing
to divert resources from a war they could possiby win to commit more
effective genocide?  Other examples of their crazy efficiency and
ineficiencies are too numerous and too painful too mention.

I do not wish to fuel the flames of another discussion on nazism in this
group.  My message is that those of you who wish to know, or to judge
more clearly should look to reference materials to deepen your point of
view.  If you wish to understand these puzzles better you must immerse yourself
in the cultures (believe me, they were different from ours today) of the
countries in Europe that acted out the tragedies of nazism.  Even then, you
may get no further than the millions who were right there when it happened
and will never understand.
					- Toby Robison (not Robinson!)
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