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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!akgua!sdcrdcf!hplabs!intelca!proper!les
From: les@proper.UUCP (Les Kent)
Newsgroups: net.micro.cpm
Subject: Re: Bugs & related flames
Message-ID: <1060@proper.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 16-Mar-84 01:47:09 EST
Article-I.D.: proper.1060
Posted: Fri Mar 16 01:47:09 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 25-Mar-84 14:33:18 EST
References: <17252@sri-arpa.UUCP>
Organization: Gifford Computers, San Leandro CA
Lines: 48

I think you will find that it most cases you get what you pay for.  So
you have a choice of what you want.  If you go the Octagon route you
will obviously get a low price but it will not in anyway be a mature
product.  Just like our MP/M 8-16 was two years ago, IT WILL HAVE BUGS.
I have every reson to beleive that they will get fixed but still they
will be there for a while.  Also it is a very primitive system without many
enhancments.  Chances are they will add features as they go.  But won't
they charge more as the software gets better and they get bigger?  Now 
they might be an exception but I must go from experience with both Gifford 
and other micro companies that started small and "grew up".  Some examples 
are CompuPro, Processor Technology and Cromemco.

If you would like to get a system so that you can figure out how MP/M 8-16 
or CCP/M 8-16 works then we are not the answer because we don't give out 
source for the XIOS.  So obviously we don't cater to the hackers of the world.
But then if we did we would not be around any more.  Now we don't do this
cause we don't like hackers (being a hacker myself), but rather it is a matter 
of economics and staying in business. 

On the other hand we have built into the XIOS everything that you might need to
change in it.  Like printer configurations like baud rate, handshaking, databits
stopbits are taken care of in a simple plain text file.  The same goes for
consoles.  If you want to do serial communications using the XIOS with
the buffering system it has built in then there have been provisions added
to handle that.  There are other such things but the idea is that I have
spent a lot of time talking to people who "needed" the XIOS source and
after talking to them and analyzing their problem I would either guide them
to an existing solution or add their solution to the system so that the 
person and others can forever take advantage in a supported enhancment
of our operatting system.

And this approch seems to work.  We have over 1000 MP/M 8-16 systems out in the
field and none of these people have complained that  it is "too easy" to 
change configurations or that they miss figuring out how to assemble and
put together and operatting system.

From an end users point of view what more do you want?

If you would like to get more information on MP/M 8-16 and what all we
have done to it and don't mind investing $35.  I can see that you are
sent our new, typeset, easy to read and well written document that 
describes MP/M 8-16 and all the enhancments we have added to it.  All 
you have to do is give me your name, address and accept a COD for $35. 
It is ~250 pages.

				Les Kent
				Gifford Computers
				ucbvax!{amd70,dual}!proper!les