Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1.chuqui 4/7/84; site nsc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!nsc!chuqui From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) Newsgroups: net.news.b Subject: Re: recordings in postnews, BSD version Message-ID: <859@nsc.UUCP> Date: Thu, 19-Apr-84 14:45:55 EST Article-I.D.: nsc.859 Posted: Thu Apr 19 14:45:55 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 21-Apr-84 01:08:56 EST References: <1518@vax4.fluke.UUCP> <833@nsc.UUCP> <1535@vax4.fluke.UUCP> Organization: National Semiconductor, Sunnyvale Lines: 98 >> The big problem with recordings in inews is that it doesn't work with >> vnews and nicely garbages the h*ll out of the screen. > >So fix vnews so that it does work! I claim that you are trying to fix >something (postnews) that isn't broken! It all depends on your philosophy. To fix inews to run recordings properly would mean to teach it screen handling ala curses. Inews is already a large and complicated beastie that I am trying to get smaller and less complicated. I feel that the job of informing users of things like recordings should be done by the programs that interact with the users. Inews is supposed to be the program that does the database access, and it should do only that job. Working with the users should be left to the front ends. >> Besides, since 99+% >> of the original messages tend to go out through postnews, that is where I >> want recordings. > >If 99+% of the messages go through postnews, then they also go through >inews, since postnews calls inews. So the recordings are already there! See my previous remarks about what inews should be doing and what it shouldn't. >> I see no sense in telling people while they are following >> up to someone what the topic is about. It is the new messages that need the >> reminders (this might now be as true for something like net.all reminding >> people about proprietary information as some Bell sites do, but that isn't >> a problem here). > >I don't understand this at all! What are you talking about? I wasn't clear. The person who is following up a message is not choosing the topics that his followup is being sent to. They are sent to the topics that the original message was in. Since he is not deciding where to send his message, asking him if he is using the proper topics is silly. The special case where someone changes topics on a followup is usually done by people who know what they are doing, and I don't feel like they need to be babysat anyway. AT&T uses recordings to remind their people not to discuss proprietary information. This case is not handled by ignoring recordings in readnews and vnews, but I feel that this is excessive babysitting and so I don't miss it. (AT&T may think differently, of course) >> I made the following assumptions: >> - I don't need recordings in readnews or vnews > >So fix readnews or vnews! If recordings are in inews, I can fix readnews and vnews all week and inews will still take over the terminal and write things on it. I would much rather fix inews by removing the recordings and put them where they belong, which is in the program that does the user interface. >> - People smart enough to write their own replacements for postnews >> are smart enough that they don't need constant reminders on how >> to use the net. > >Such people should also be smart enough to figure out how to prevent >inews from playing the recording. I am sure they are. The point is, inews shouldn't be doing this in the first place. I think I am getting repetitive on this point, but my philosophy is that a program should do one thing well. Inews was not designed to do user interface stuff (read the man page) and having it do recordings causes it to interface in one isolated way. Unless you are willing to teach inews how to do this for each possible interface, it will not do it right in all cases. My solution is to try to steer inews back to what it was supposed to be, which is a back end, and let the front ends do what they are supposed to do, which is work with the user and keep them informed. >My main point still holds: If readnews or vnews is broken (or if you >perceive a missing feature) FIX WHAT IS BROKEN! Postnews is not >broken! It doesn't need to be fixed! If you want to claim that you >have a combination of changes to postnews and rnews/inews which moves >the playing of recordings from inews to postnews, I suppose that I >could accept that, but that is NOT fixing something that is broken. It >is changing the functionality/adding new functionality. I did fix what was broken. Inews was broken because it was doing something it wasn't supposed to do - recordings. Postnews, which should have done recordings, didn't. readnews and vnews, which don't do recordings, still don't because I don't feel they have to. I think what we have here is a philosophical difference of opinion on the lines of cat -v. I don't plan on beating it into the ground any further unless interesting new points come up, because if you agree with me I don't need to convince you, and if you disagree I'll probably never change you mind. Either way screaming at each other will simply make life miserable for everyone... chuq -- From under the bar at Callahan's: Chuq Von Rospach {amd70,fortune,hplabs,menlo70}!nsc!chuqui (408) 733-2600 x242 Never give your heart to a stranger, unless you are sure that you are dead.