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From: tims@mako.UUCP (Tim Stoehr)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: The (non-) existence of God.
Message-ID: <33@mako.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 22-Mar-84 13:51:20 EST
Article-I.D.: mako.33
Posted: Thu Mar 22 13:51:20 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 25-Mar-84 10:14:04 EST
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR
Lines: 93


 > First of all I personally don't know anyone who once believed in
 > God but for some reason don't believe now. Did they really believe
 > in the first place? Did you REALLY believe in the first place?

I DID and don't now.  I was brought up in a Christian household and
like most children, I believed what my parents insisted to be true.
However, the time came when I could think for myself, without being
bound to childhood beliefs.

 > And what exactly would it take to convince you of the existence
 > of God? A world wide cure of all deadly diseases?
 > A loved one being resurrected?

It all depends on the circumstances.  If science defeated disease with
its means, that would not convince me of God's existence.  However,
if these diseases just mysteriously vanished, still that doesn't mean
there is a God.  Now, if someone came along and publicly announced that
disease would be cured by God, and it happened, I might be convinced.
But the fact remains, nothing ever happens that points to the existence
of a God.  All the ifs in the world don't change that.  Show me some
godly intervention, there is none.

 > Even if all these things were
 > to happen, you would still not be convinced...

You are making an assumption that you know nothing of.  But what should I
expect from someone who believes in the existence of God?

 > You say that "if Jesus existed...", as if there is some chance
 > He didn't.

There's quite a bit of chance that he didn't.  But that doesn't matter,
there are thousands and thousands of people throughout history and today
that have claimed to be divine.

 > But there is evidence that he indeed did exist. I'm
 > not totally sure but He is referenced in some ancient manuscripts
 > as the One from Nazareth causing all the comotion...
 > (ancient manuscripts other then the Bible that is...)
 > I don't know about Him claiming to be the Son of God, but He
 > did say that "...I and my Father are One..", which would imply
 > more then being the Son!!!
 > The things that went on 2000 yrs ago are documented in the Bible,
 > not real detail, but nevertheless documented.

You actually firmly believe what ancient manuscripts say?  Or do you
only believe the ones that say what you want to believe, the ones
that confirm what you've been taught?  There are plenty of ancient, and
not so ancient manuscripts, documents, whatever, that are completely
inconsistent with the notion of God.  But those are different, right?

 > Arn't millions of people wasting their time if God does not exist?

Not really, isn't there a lot of Christian philosophy about how to
conduct your life that doesn't directly depend on the existence of
God?

 > The theory of Man evolving from lower forms of life just doesn't
 > jibe with Scriptures, however, couldn't God have His hand in other
 > forms of evolution? When Adam and Eve were created, couldn't God
 > have said: " OK you two, let's see what you can evolve into!"?
 > And if not for going against the command of God, could have
 > who knows, evolved into some super intelligent species.
 > Much speculation could take place in this area.

I suppose that could have happened, though I see no reason to believe
that it did.

 > What??? You consider yourself no more special then an alley cat, or
 > a wombat for that matter? Come on now, I for one put myself well above
 > every non human animal on this earth. 
 > Didn't God say man should have dominion over the animals?
 > That's the way it was meant to be, that's the way it should be.
 > What makes you think otherwise?

What makes me think otherwise?  Open your eyes, man.  Look at the other
life forms around you.  Take that alley cat you mentioned, for example.
You are far more similar to that cat than you are different.  Look at
its skeleton, its chemical composition, its eyes, its hair, its brain
and nervous system, its organs, its behavior they are remarkably similar
to those of a human.  Sure, you would like to believe that humans have
dominion over the rest of the animals, don't you think that could have
something to do with the fact that you happen to be a human.  People
dominate the earth because they have a larger brain, vocal cords to
speak with and versatile hands for manipulating objects.  This has
allow him to develop technology, and technology allows him to dominate
the world.
People are physically inferior in many ways to many animals.  Don't you
think it natural for humans to invent the idea that they are above the other
species?  Man's physiological configuration is just one of the many
adaptations that allow survival.  Once dinosaurs ruled the earth, where
was man's dominion then?  Their time is gone, and some day man's will
be too, despite any supposed God-given dominion.