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From: psuvm%v6m@psuvax.UUCP
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Subject: 
Message-ID: <776@psuvm.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 30-Mar-84 10:42:59 EST
Article-I.D.: psuvm.776
Posted: Fri Mar 30 10:42:59 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 31-Mar-84 09:01:06 EST
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This is not a personal flame against Judy.  Keep that in mind everbody!!!!

1.  Judy exhibits disatisfaction over some recurring points which tend to be
    repeated by people who leave the Church.  I'll research these at length
    and post appropriate answers lest I cause scandal.  Anyway...

2. On nuns and Judy's questioning of authority:
   I have had nuns who inspired me.   I have had others for whom I saw quicky
   that their vocation was not in the religious life (but at least they tried)
   and I've had others who were a scandal to the Church.  But most of the time
   I had nuns who did their best for us.  One of the biggest complaints of
   fallen away Catholics is the way they were treated by the scandalous set.
   Two things are wrong here: the scandalous nun AND the person  who could
   not see through her (nun) faults.  They see the abuse of authority but not
   its benefits or its rewards.  Eventually it comes down to a superior-sub
   ordinate problem.  One is usually given valid reasons for doing things or
   believing in things. One can quit the system if you do not accept the
   authority or accept the authority and teachings on "faith" if you do not
   understand or , ideally, accept the positions because you do understand.
   As for intellectual freedom and authority, well I doubt that ANY philosophy
   let alone a religion can accept ultimate intellectual freedom. How could
   student's errors be corrected?  How could they be TAUGHT from the experience
   of the teacher?  By the way SELF-DISCIPLINE is the best discipline. I
   learned that in the USAF and in Catholic high school BUT it can not be
   until external discipline is learned.  One learns this first at home and
   then it is continued in elementary and high school.  It is used in lesser
   degree as the individual matures.  (I have a 4 year old and logical
   arguments go only so far).

2. The teaching power of the Church (to be ecumenical I'll even extend the
   concept to other sects).
   As far as I can tell there is insufficient knowledge in the Bible to cover
   all religious problems and all life problems and all social problems.  The
   major problem with evangelical Christianity is that reduces the teaching
   authority of the religious hierarchy. (Even they have one..not a deep one
   but one none the less).  This reduces the teaching authority to what was
   divinely inspired  BUT leaves no room for continuing revelation from God.
   Christ came to perfect the old law not destroy it.  Wisely He knew that
   perfection takes more time than  3 years!!!! The teaching authority of the
   Church comes from God and the struggle for perfection comes slowly.
   Revelation does NOT come from blinding flashes often, although it does
   occur. As example the signs at Lourdes.

3. The "problem" of praying to saints and the corollary of having statues:

   We do not ADORE saints.  We  adore God.  We pray for their intercession.
   We pray to the Father directly and indirectly through the Son. (yes I know
   it is the same God).  The Old Law forbad those items that would lead the
   Jews into idolatry.  Christ came to perfect the Old Law.  His Church
   continues it.  We forbid idolatry but not prayer to saints. The problem
   of idolatry has been lessened.  We found it good that images be used to
   the faithful remember.

4. These are not inclussive.  Any errors are mine and will be recanted when
   wrong.

                   Vince Marchionni