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From: david@ssc-vax.UUCP (David Norris)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Faith != Reason
Message-ID: <38@ssc-vax.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 5-Apr-84 12:33:28 EST
Article-I.D.: ssc-vax.38
Posted: Thu Apr  5 12:33:28 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 9-Apr-84 05:24:42 EST
Organization: Boeing Aerospace, Seattle
Lines: 37

[munch]
Lisa Manchester posted a short note:

> I think Thomas Aquinas said the definitive word on this
> subject a few hundred years ago:
> "You cannot arrive at faith by reason."

To which Rich Rosen replied:

> Yes, and with this in mind there is no reason to have faith
> in things that cannot be justified by reason and logic.

Here is a model which may help:

	(No)<....reason....><...faith....>(Yes)

The reality of the situation is that things aren't black and white.  This
can apply to non-religious things as well.  In the above graph, Rich would
probably say that (for Christianity) the "reason" line is shorter than the
"faith" line.  On the other hand, I'm sure there are many examples, and
non-religious ones, where, for Rich and others, the "reason" line is longer
than the "faith" line but the premise is accepted on faith.  Evolution, the
Big Bang theory, and Quantum Physics are possible examples.

Rich's actual complaint, I believe, is twofold:  1) people start at (Yes)
and work backwards, and 2) the amount of evidence/data/reason/logic to
support the leap of faith required to (Yes) (correct me if I have mistaken
your position, Rich).  It is interesting, though, to note the words of Job:
"Can one by searching find God?"  The answer is no.  Becoming a Christian
(at least, for me) requires God to reach down from the (Yes) to assist
the individual to make that last step.  This faith is a gift from God, and
is a step into the light, not a leap into darkness.

I welcome constructive criticism of my crude model.

	-- David Norris        :-)
	-- uw-beaver!ssc-vax!david