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From: rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Faith != Reason
Message-ID: <547@pyuxn.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 8-Apr-84 18:10:24 EST
Article-I.D.: pyuxn.547
Posted: Sun Apr  8 18:10:24 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 10-Apr-84 19:08:09 EST
References: <38@ssc-vax.UUCP>
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway N.J.
Lines: 33

Though I had a bit of trouble at first deciphering what you meant, David, by
a "reason line" and a "faith line", I now see the model more clearly, and yes,
you have hit the nail on the head.  (Of course, you then fall into some old
traps a la self-referentially quoting the Bible...)  With your permission,
I would like to expand and clarify it.

It can be assumed that there is a mystical "line" or "bridge" between disbelief
and belief.  To move from the "disbelief" end of the line (the natural starting
point when no evidence is present) to the "belief" end of the line, the
"bridge" must be built.  The method of building the bridge is through reason
and logic (the "reason line").  If you run out of raw material (reason) from
which to make your bridge, you would have to "leap" across the remaining
abyss (the well-known "leap of faith").

As David says, two points of "complaint" are the size of the remaining abyss,
and the people who build the bridge from the "wrong" side.

> Rich's actual complaint, I believe, is twofold:  1) people start at (Yes)
> and work backwards, and 2) the amount of evidence/data/reason/logic to
> support the leap of faith required to (Yes) (correct me if I have mistaken
> your position, Rich).  It is interesting, though, to note the words of Job:
> "Can one by searching find God?"  The answer is no.  Becoming a Christian
> (at least, for me) requires God to reach down from the (Yes) to assist
> the individual to make that last step.  This faith is a gift from God, and
> is a step into the light, not a leap into darkness.

And again, this assumes that what you experienced was external and real rather
than internal and imagined.  I'm still looking for the "reason" that a "leap
of faith" was/should be taken.  ("Because it brings you closer to the truth"
is not an acceptable answer, since nothing has been shown to be "the truth".)
-- 
Now I've lost my train of thought. I'll have to catch the bus of thought.
			Rich Rosen    pyuxn!rlr