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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!grkermit!masscomp!trb
From: trb@masscomp.UUCP (Andy Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Marvel Comics, Jews and Other Ethnic Groups
Message-ID: <248@masscomp.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 11-Apr-84 22:28:22 EST
Article-I.D.: masscomp.248
Posted: Wed Apr 11 22:28:22 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 13-Apr-84 00:09:53 EST
References: <395@ihuxt.UUCP> <975@qubix.UUCP>
Organization: MASSCOMP, Littleton, MA
Lines: 69

First, I hereby salute the contribution of Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo
to this group.  He brings an educated, unique, heartfelt, interesting
opinion to net.religion.jewish.

Not surprisingly, many folks are taking shots at his views, and I find
that interesting:  It seems that Martillo DISCRIMINATES between people
of certain religions, certain nationalities, certain backgrounds.
Some of us white boys seem to have problems with this notion.  Here in
America, we do not discriminate, it's not nice.  All men are created
equal.

NO NO NO!  People who have this point of view have been living life as
a spectator sport.  I feel that they're missing a point.  

In reply to Martillo's expression of his disdain for Germans,
Hispanics, Persians, Greeks, and Russians (because of their oppression
of the Jews), qubix!steven states:

> I am only glad that almost all jews are not as predijuced and bigoted
> as you have just shown yourself to be.   How can you believe that
> simply because Pytor Rasputin is a russian, he has any control of his
> general society??  You seem amazingly willing to condemn someone (even
> a comic book character) just on the basis of national origin.   I
> shudder to think what you think of people who happen to be born with
> Hispanic skin tone......

(I shudder to think what kind of skin tone qubix!steven thinks Martillo
has.)  Let's say Martillo has a reason for hating these groups.  Yea, it
takes a good reason, but let's say he does.  In Munchkinland, we drop a
house on one bad witch, we pee on the other one, and then everybody
just lives happily ever after.  Come on!  Not everybody grew up in
Middle America where everybody's the same.  Not everyone has to abide
by "turn the other cheek" and "everybody get together try to love one
another right now."  In this world, there ARE reasons for hating
various groups of people.  Due to the rather unselective pruning that
they did to my family, I'm not particularly fond of Nazis.  All the
groups that Martillo mentioned played Nazi at one time or another.
That's Martillo's point, and I think it's a valid one.

Look at qubix!steven's first sentence again, he calls Martillo
prejudiced and bigoted.  It's time for an English lesson.  Prejudiced
means "PRECONCEIVED judgements or opinions."  Preconceived.  Bigot
means "one obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his own opinions or
prejudices."  I don't think that Martillo is prejudiced; he has
reasons for his beliefs which I consider valid.  I don't think he's
bigoted because I don't find him obstinate or intolerant.  He
expresses his strong views in a strong way, but that doesn't mean that
he isn't listening or that he doesn't understand other points of
view.

Part of having some integrity in this life means hating people who (for
instance) represent opression.  If you roll out your red carpet to
those people and serve them dinner on your good china, then I don't
have very much respect for you.

I don't agree with everything Martillo says, sometimes I don't LIKE his
opinions, but I respect them, because he's given me evidence that he's
come to his opinions with great effort and study, and WITHOUT
prejudice.  I'm also glad that he has the guts and integrity to share
his opinions in a public forum where he knows well that people will
take shots at him as an easy and popular target.

Now, a summary, for the thinking impaired:  I think some people out
there have a problem with Martillo expressing hatred for a group.
They think that it's a "bad thing" because proponents of "minority
groups" told us so.  I'm saying that hatred is sometimes the right
thing, even though it's easy enough to take pot shots at someone for.

	Andy Tannenbaum   Masscomp Inc  Westford MA   (617) 692-6200 x274