Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxt.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!ihnp4!ihuxt!martillo From: martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Rape in Libya Message-ID: <396@ihuxt.UUCP> Date: Sun, 8-Apr-84 23:25:38 EST Article-I.D.: ihuxt.396 Posted: Sun Apr 8 23:25:38 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 10-Apr-84 19:10:29 EST References: <7451@watmath.UUCP>, <388@ihuxt.UUCP>, <390@ihuxt.UUCP>, <846@ihuxq.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 74 >Well, I've stayed away from this one as long as I could. Alas: >>> Still, I should like to note that in a previous article Miss Quigley >>> confused evidence rules of rape and adultery cases... >Using the N. Y. Times style book, are we? How do you know she's >not Mrs. Quigley? I do not know and I do not care. I do not like Ms. because I do not like mindlessly altering a language to fit the current intellectual fad. Language altering reminds me of 1984 and duck-speak. Desexing the language will hardly end sex descrimination. Japanese has no grammatical category for sex (no separate pronouns he,she or it). Yet, Japanese culture seems to be one of the least sexually egalitarian on the earth. >>> I believe the word is clitoridectomy and there are Muslim women who defend >>> the operation. The person who carries out the operation is a woman. >This is an argument? Read Solomon Asch on attitude compliance and >of course, Mr. Martillo, Bruno Bettelheim on prisoner emulation of >concentration camp guards. (He was there.) Why, even here in the US >we have Phyllis Schafly. All oppressed minorities can find a few >apologists for, if not active proponents of, the system. I was merely making an observation because Milady Quigley seemed to be implying the local women were all fighting clitoridectomy. I am not in favor of clitoridectomy. As a doctor, my grandfather at risk to his own life was fighting the practice of clitoridectomy 50 years ago in North Africa. >>> American feminists seem to have totally accepted careerism as >>> self-fulfillment. The importance of careerism in American society is >>> purely a result of the low-class bourgeois background of most of the >>> people who immigrated to the United States. Upper class Europeans have >>> never considered careerism an important value... >For a guy who's so quick to get on Westerners' cases about their >ignorance of North African culture because they weren't born there, >Mr. M has a lot of chutzpah. What did the Uppah Claahss need careers >for? Squander it as they might, their wealth, until into the 20th >century, was so vast it was not necessary to work. Yes, a career >is important when the alternative is starvation. Oh yes, it was >during this century, during the world wars, that women were essentially >drafted into the US labor force in large numbers. I guess you'd have to >have studied some American history to know that. Gainful employment and careerism are two very different categories of activity. Careerism is strictly a latter half of the 20th century phenomenon. Careerism has been a much less effective ideology in Europe and Japan specifically because there was an elite class who could demonstrate an alternate lifestyle. Paid employment is important when the only alternative is starvation. People verging on starvation do not worry about careers. >I submit, Mr. M., that you know very little about the determinants >of American culture. But you will go far (as you certainly already >have) on your colossal arrogance. I am not sure what in my reply to Milady Quigley's article "Rape in Lybia" merited this ad hominem attack but if I was arrogant towards her, I publicly apologize. Milady Quigley is one of the more outspoken contributors to this net group and would have informed me of any impropriety on my part. Mr. Perlow was presumptious to act on her behalf unless he is acting at her request. -- Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo (At the narrow passage, there is neither brother nor friend)