Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: Notesfiles; site uicsl.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!mgnetp!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!uicsl!dinitz
From: dinitz@uicsl.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.ai
Subject: Re: A topic for discussion, phil/ai pers - (nf)
Message-ID: <15500037@uicsl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 17-May-84 14:53:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: uicsl.15500037
Posted: Thu May 17 14:53:00 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 19-May-84 00:44:22 EDT
References: <277@wxlvax.UUCP>
Lines: 36
Nf-ID: #R:wxlvax:-27700:uicsl:15500037:000:1710
Nf-From: uicsl!dinitz    May 17 13:53:00 1984

#R:wxlvax:-27700:uicsl:15500037:000:1710
uicsl!dinitz    May 17 13:53:00 1984

When I read the following paragraph, I groaned "Oh no, not this topic
again!"

   It seems that it is IMPOSSIBLE to ever build a computer that can truly
   perceive as a human being does, unless we radically change our ideas 
   about how perception is carried out.

It's useless to argue whether computers will ever percieve AS HUMANS
DO.  But I read further and found more substance worth chewing on in
the next paragraph.

   The reason for this is that we humans have very little difficulty
   identifying objects as the same across time, even when all the features of
   that object change (including temporal and spatial ones).  Computers,
   on the other hand, are being built to identify objects by feature-sets. But
   no set of features is ever enough to assure cross-time identification of
   objects.  

Although the responses so far have addressed the philosophical questions of
sameness and continuity, I understood the problem to be one of perception.
I move that the discussion be carried out on both levels.

The perception level problems can be summarized as follows.  Regardless of
the the metaphysical basis one adopts, the human brain (and its adjunct
perceptual subsystems) process sensory data to give the impression that
discrete objects exist through time.  Furthermore, the brain tracks these
objects through succesive (though not necessarily adjacent) images of the
environment -- clearly in response to an evolutionary imperative.  What are
the mechanisms that allow this tracking to take place?  How are they similar
to or different from the methods we might use on computers to achieve such
an effect?

The English language may bias our answers to these questions, so be careful.