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From: features@ihuxf.UUCP (M.A. Zeszutko)
Newsgroups: net.motss
Subject: REAL men...
Message-ID: <2174@ihuxf.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2-May-84 18:30:13 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxf.2174
Posted: Wed May  2 18:30:13 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 4-May-84 00:43:41 EDT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 66

For those who do not subscribe to net.jokes.d, here's something that
may provoke some thoughts: (copied without notification to the original
poster)

	*This goes for REAL WOMEN, too!*

M. Zeszutko

From ihnp4!fortune!crane Wed Dec 31 18:00:00 1969
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From: crane@fortune.UUCP (John Crane)
Newsgroups: net.jokes.d
Subject: Re: "Gay Blade" joke
Message-ID: <3207@fortune.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2-May-84 12:17:10 CDT
Article-I.D.: fortune.3207
Posted: Wed May  2 12:17:10 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 2-May-84 14:12:48 CDT
Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA
Lines: 42

Somebody posted a joke to the effect that if "REAL MEN" don't shave, then
why doesn't Giilette change their razor from "Good News" to the "Gay Blade"?
Or something to that effect.

I responded to the effect that I thought the real joke was the author of
the above comment.

I thought we were going to stop posting jokes which put down minorities?

Again, the reason why such jokes are offensive is that they tend to
enforce stereotypes and encourage the habit we humans ALL sometimes
have of taking something we can't confront, handle, understand, or deal
with and putting a label on it. Then we can look at the label, and not
the person.

I found two labels in the above joke -- "real men" and "gay". I found
both of them extremely offensive. NOBODY, but NOBODY has the right to
define what a real man is for somebody else. And anybody who lets
somebody else define for him/her what a real man is is probably the
closest thing to not being a real man.

As for gay people not being real men. I'm going to change that to as
for gay people not fitting SOME PEOPLE's IMAGE OF A REAL MAN. Look
around you, man, just look around you.

I would submit the following attributes of a REAL man (or women):

REAL men are concerned with the individual, not with whatever label
	an insensitive society puts on the person

REAL men have their own self-definition and don't depend on society
	to define them by putting labels on them

REAL men don't make jokes at the expense of other people

REAL men observe things around them for themselves and don't depend on
	other people's interpretation of what they see or should see

REAL men don't take themselves too seriously

REAL men aren't really that concerned about being REAL men