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From: nxs@fluke.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: Re: attentio classical etc. *long*, *offensive*, and *unrotated*!!
Message-ID: <255@tpvax.fluke.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2-May-84 14:17:44 EDT
Article-I.D.: tpvax.255
Posted: Wed May  2 14:17:44 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 8-May-84 00:06:11 EDT
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Just a few responses to your responses:
> micheal (you know which one)
< Jeff Winslow

> Or is it that classical listeners suffer under the Great Disgrace that has
> plagued the style for centuries, and feel safer hiding in secluded places?

> Where are the black classical composers? How many women classical composers
> can YOU recall? (there have been so few (Germaine Francaise, anybody?) that
> atrocities like `composerette' never occurred!)

<Who gives a fuck? Certainly no one who cares for music more than politics.
<And how can this possibly reflect on the quality of that music or people who
<like to discuss it? Answer: it can't.

<As for "Great Disgrace... for centuries" - what kind of horseshit is that?
<Was leonin an elitist? machaut? Des prez? Bach? In a time when music was
<either church music or used the same tunes used in church music, and
<everyone went to church? The supposed disgrace of being listened to by
<people with more money than people who listen to other styles is not
<the fault of the *style*. It may not even be true. What it is, is the
<raving of guilt-ridden maggots who daily flagellate themselves in the
<vain hope that something of beauty will result. (How's that for pompous?)

Micheal was not referring to politics when he posed the question of elitism,
he was referring to anti-humanistic elitism that abounds amoung some classical
music types (it is this same thought process that leads people towards
demanding that they have protedtion from the illiterate masses of rock music
lovers). 
> classical over the centuries, how come it is hard to think of even one jewish
> composer? Remember -- Mahler had to renounce Judaism to attain the status he
> did!

Schoenberg didn't. I take it as indicative of your general musical ignorance
that you couldn't think of *that* name. once again, the phenomena you 
mention has *nothing* to do with the music itself.

> Is classical separatism on the net symptomatic of the bigotry that has
> characterized the style since its inception centuries ago?

I refer again to the composers of the middle ages and Renaissance, and ask,
what the hell are you talking about?

> This world will probably blow itself up over the elitist forces that appear
> to be thriving at classical concerts. 

This world will blow itself up because of the machinations of turds who are
so insensitive to beauty that all they can see in this music is the history
of its political surroundings. Take your ill-informed stereotypes and bigotry
and shove them where they won't see daylight again. At least until you're
vaporized by the big blow-up.

And now, for those of you who stuck with me, an apology.

This is probably the subject that I have the *most* passionate feelings about
in the whole wide world. If I seem to froth, just realize - my motherhood
and apple pie are being attacked. I'm sorry if I offended anyone too much.
And, michael, despite all I've said, please realize that much of my 
invective is directed more at a straw man than it is you. It may be hard
to believe, but I can even imagine meeting you in person tomorrow and having an
amicable discussion with you.    About some other subject, of course.


				oh god, I'm going to do it...
						Jeff Winslow