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From: malik@delphi.DEC (Karl Malik ZK01-1/F22 1-1440)
Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: John Williams
Message-ID: <377@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 21-May-84 15:52:03 EDT
Article-I.D.: decwrl.377
Posted: Mon May 21 15:52:03 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 23-May-84 08:05:21 EDT
Organization: DEC Engineering Network
Lines: 57

SUBJ; John Williams

Deborah L. Padgett says -

>    John Williams is no thief!!! Making a statement such as that shows
>your ignorance of his work. He is one of a very few film composers who
>can increase the cohesiveness and appeal of a movie simply by writing its
>score.

Me (Karl Malik)

	I don't remember Rich's exact words, but I didn't get the impression
that he was saying that Williams was stealing unaltered sections from
Holst or Stravinsky. Rather that he's a style thief. With that I fully
agree and will add that he's VERY GOOD at it. His music DOES enhance the
films. And technically, he's also VERY GOOD. It's just that it's not very
original.

>The idea that Williams "steals" parts of Holst's "Mars" and Stravinsky's
>"Rite of Spring" is utterly laughable; 
					
Someone (who didn't sign their name) -

>There is a place in the score of the original Star Wars that is *very*
>reminiscent of "The Rite of Spring".  It's near the beginning, I think
>it's the scene where the two droids have just started wandering about in
>the desert on Tatooine (sp?).

Me -

	Yup. I remember smiling at how blatant the 'theft' was. It's not
subtle. If you know the Rite, you where Williams' inspirations came from
in a few seconds. Coincidence? Not unless you assume that Williams is
stupid. I don't.

Someone -

>I can't think of anything in the score of Star Wars that is much like
>the Mars movement from the planets, unless you count the heavy use of
>brass and percussion.  Personally, I think it sounds much more like
>Howard Hanson.

Me -
	Well, it sure sounds like the Holst/Mars movement to me. Most
of the music associated with the space battle scenes have a repeated,
unison motif, which (to my ears) is highly reminiscent of the the Mars
5/4 motif. Again, not an exact theft, but in terms of style and mood
there's no mistaking it, if you know Mars.

	All of this does not in any way invalidate Williams' contributions
as a film composer. He draws his ideas from many sources. The goal is to
support the film and he does this wonderfully.

	Well-crafted and effective it is, original it ain't.

	
							- Karl