Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxq.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!we13!ihnp4!ihuxq!ken From: ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Participative Democracy (correct info on SDS) Message-ID: <918@ihuxq.UUCP> Date: Thu, 3-May-84 18:40:40 EDT Article-I.D.: ihuxq.918 Posted: Thu May 3 18:40:40 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 5-May-84 00:22:23 EDT References: <973@ihuxm.UUCP>, <330@teldata.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 60 -- >> Andy, >> Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't that same group (SDS) get involved >> in some protests that lead to the bombing of a research lab (supposedly >> empty, but occupied by a grad student at the time) at Kent State which >> resulted in the presence of the National Guard while more protests and >> demonstrations were going on which resulted in some young men--who were >> out doing what they thought was defending their country--responding to >> provocation by firing their rifles and killing nine students? If my >> memory serves me correctly, those very demonstrations were organized >> by the SDS... AAARRRGGGH! Boy, are you wrong! You are confusing the Aug. 20, 1970 bombing of the Army Math Research Center at the University of Wisconsin, *NOT* perpetrated by SDS, with the May 4, 1970 killing of four students at Kent State University by the National Guard, also *NOT* perpetrated by SDS. Let me elucidate... On Aug 20, 1970 (might have been the 24th, come to think of it), an explosion outside Sterling Hall on the UW campus extensively damaged this home to both the Physics Dept and the AMRC. Robert Fassnacht, a physics researcher, was killed in the 3 AM explosion. Responsibility for the act was claimed by the "New Year's Gang", four men who had claimed involvement in previous acts of sabotage. Three of these guys were eventually caught, and I believe all 3 have served whatever time they had to and are now free. The fourth was never apprehended. These guys had nothing to do with SDS, which was essentially inactive at the time. I know because I was there, in SDS, at the time. On May 4, 1970 (14th anniversary now) a squad of Ohio National Guardsmen openned fire on a crowd of agitated but unarmed students at Kent State. Four died, none of whom were members of SDS, nor any leftist group. The crowd was protesting the invasion of Cambodia by US forces in Vietnam. Nixon referred to the action as a "limited incursion." SDS members were probably involved in the protest, but it was one of those "coalition" things, an ad hoc event which attracted many people who were not especially dogmatic. SDS did not organize it. The event everybody forgets is the killing of over a dozen students at Jackson State University in Mississippi by State police about two weeks after Kent State. All the protesters at Jackson State, and thus all the dead, were Black. As to SDS, yeah, we were sure naive. The SDS of the early 60's degenerated into worship of Mao and Ho Chi Minh, and splintered into the Yippies and the Progressive Labor Party (which is still around). We saw all issues as black and white, and the revolution was just around the corner. It was an exciting time, and we were going to deal with it--to make history, stop a war. Somehow the atmosphere was always one of optimism. SDS's ends and means are, now, certainly impeachable. But if you or a loved one never had to cope with the war in Vietnam on a personal level, you'll never understand why SDS was appropriate, nay, *RIGHT* for its time. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 03 May 84 [14 Floreal An CXCII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7261 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***