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From: barry@ames-lm.UUCP (Kenn Barry)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Muslim States and Political Regressiveness
Message-ID: <246@ames-lm.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 13-May-84 14:55:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: ames-lm.246
Posted: Sun May 13 14:55:17 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 15-May-84 02:51:15 EDT
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Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA
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[*************=8>:)         (snort)]

     Mr. Martillo,
     I have not had occasion to respond to any of your postings
before, but I am a pretty faithful reader of them. I would credit
your messages (and the responses to them) for making net.religion.-
jewish interesting reading even to non-Jews such as myself.
     I must disagree with your call for the annihilition of the
Arab states, for two reasons.
     First, I'm afraid it's simply unrealistic. WHO is to
annihilate these states? If by "Westerners" you mean Western
Europe and the U.S., don't you think the Eastern bloc nations
(the Soviets) might get a teeny bit upset about the West colonizing
North Africa? Not that I respect their opinions much, but I do
respect their military might. Soviets aside, I would still question
whether such colonization would be feasible. The French tried very
hard to hang on to Algeria for many years, with no success. The
U.S. experience in Vietnam also suggests to me that such an
attempt at colonization would be unsuccessful. The days of
European colonialism are gone, not for moral reasons, but for
practical ones. Any government's rule requires at least tacit
acceptance of their suzerainty by the subject population. I
wouldn't say (as some do) that people always get the government
they deserve, but they DO always get a government they can
tolerate, by definition. I think the history of the world since
WW II shows clearly that European colonialism can no longer
command the minimal cooperation from the colonials which is
essential to maintain power.
     On to my other objection. You claim that your hatred is
of the Islamic governments, and not the people. If so, how does
it follow that "the only possibility is a return to [Western]
colonialism"? By claiming this, are you not therefore claiming,
not only that the present Islamic rulers are unfit, but also
that the Muslim peoples are incapable of self-rule, period? I
share your intense distaste for some of the governments you
criticize, but I am not so contemptuous of the people they rule
that I conclude they are unable to do better. You compare
your call for the annihilation of these Islamic states with a
call to annihilate Nazi Germany in the 30's but, by your logic,
we should not only have destroyed the Nazi regime, but also
should have taken over the rulership of Germany. We did not do
this; the Russians, however, did. Do you think that East Germany
is a good model of what to do with countries whose governments
we dislike? Or do you argue that the Germans, Naziism
notwithstanding, are more 'civilized' than the Arabs?
     Truly, it seems that this is exactly what you are saying.
And this is where I cannot agree with you. It is comforting to
believe that atrocities and horrors are committed only by others,
by peoples less civilized than ourselves. Unfortunately, the
capacity to be 'good little Nazis' is there in all of us, as
Stanley Milgram demonstrated some years back. Indeed, belief in
the moral superiority of one's own group is precisely the sort
of philosophy that leads to fanatical excess and genocide.
     As Walt Kelly observed (in "Pogo"), "We have met the enemy,
and he is us."

     [The opinions expressed herein are my own foolishness, and do not
necessarily reflect the views of anyone that matters.]

                                                Kenn Barry
                                                NASA-Ames Research Center
                                                Moffett Field, CA
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