Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site akgua.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!akgua!rjb
From: rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob])
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Challenge to Humanist/Materialists
Message-ID: <779@akgua.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 18-May-84 12:38:44 EDT
Article-I.D.: akgua.779
Posted: Fri May 18 12:38:44 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 19-May-84 00:23:44 EDT
Organization: AT&T Technologies/Bell Labs, Atlanta
Lines: 67



In response to Mr Akerlind's challenge awhile back, I have one
of my own for people of the Secular Humanist and Materialist
persuasions. (Note: Since Rationalist has a meaning inside 
Philosophy, would it be fair to label the Rosen position
as Materialist since he and others who agree with him believe
that which is sensible with the usual five plus the mind
is all that there is in the Universe ? )

Or has Materialist already been used up too ?

Anyway, my challenge  revolves around questions (not original with
me) of the following type:

	1) Postulate Evolution of a self-existing Universe.

	2) Man is the current end product of this progressive
	   process at least in our corner of it.

Question #1) Since man is purely a product of his genes and his
             environment, on what basis is the statement
	     "I ought..." distinguishable from "I itch.." ?
	     (Thank You C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity)
						 
Question #2) Following that line, how can responsibility for
	     personal behavior be assigned to anyone since
	     he or she is not really in a position to control
	     their genetic make-up (right now anyway) ?

Humanist documents and literature I have read extol the virtues
of individual freedom of choice and situational ethics that
promote the idea that you determine what is right for you
on a case by case basis.

Question #3) Is there a reference point in this system that
	     will prevent the tendency to drift toward anarchy
	     when you and I and a zillion other folks are doing
	     our situational ethics number on a grand scale ?

Question #4) Is there a need for the designations good and evil
	     (I think Rich Rosen dealt with this) and do they
	     have any meaning in this worldview ? (In light
	     of Questions 1 and 2 )

Question #5) Does this implicit exultation of self actually
	     succeed in making a livable society ?
	     (I expect to hear from Ayn Rand Disciples on this.)

Have I received a biased view of Humanism, in particular, since I
get the impression that it is extremely ME oriented ?

Humanism seems to me to represent the best efforts of mankind
to deify itself.  Personally, selfishness has never been good
for me or anyone I've affected when I made it a full time pursuit.

Come on Humanists-Materialists you have a lot of articulate
contributors on the net - it is your turn.




Bob Brown {...clyde!akgua!rjb}
AT&T Technologies, Inc.............. Norcross, Ga
(404) 447-3784 ...  Cornet 583-3784