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From: rao@utcsstat.UUCP (Eli Posner)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Aliyah
Message-ID: <1908@utcsstat.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 15-May-84 20:06:12 EDT
Article-I.D.: utcsstat.1908
Posted: Tue May 15 20:06:12 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 15-May-84 20:08:04 EDT
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Organization: U. of Toronto, Canada
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From: martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (Yehoyaqim Martillo)
>Does waiting for the clear presence of the Messiah before making aliyah
>show any faith or courage?  Once the Messiah has shown himself, who would
>not make aliyah?

I don't know why , but I find the above statement humourous (No offence intended, Yaqim).

Now that we (the Jewish People) have a enormous opportunity to move to Israel
and fulfill the Mitzvot as we are supposed to, only a small percentage do.
All Mitzvot which are connected to the ground (eg. Shmita, Yovel etc.) are
not relevent to us here in Chutz La'aretz. There is an opinion that ALL
mitzvot are not on us in Chutz La'aretz - but are just being done so they
won't be forgotten. In other words, North America is not our home. We
are just here temporarily until the time comes when we could go back
to Eretz Yisrael, our homeland, and fulfill all the Mitzvot with which we
are commanded to do.

Therefore , I feel that waiting until the CLEAR presence of Messiah,  could
be a lack of total faith. I know! You have a nice home here in America,
why would you want to go to Israel, where it's scummy (?!) and where
there is a chance that your son will die in the army. (Even though there
is a greater chance of getting killed in New York.....).
This is some peoples feeling. It IS understandable, but could be wrong.
On the other hand, those that feel the imminent presence of the messiah
do move to Israel as they should.

Anyways, why would one have to wait until "the clear presence of Messiah"??
Why wait longer in the Golut?? (Has it become a Tuyva?) We have an 
oppurtunity to go home. Even if the Messiah is not near (although he is),
why WOULDN'T everyone make Aliya? It baffles my mind.

[There are those that say that the messiah isn't a person, but rather a time
period. If so, it has obviously arrived.]

Also, who says that once the Messiah comes, all Jews will make Aliya??!!
Please, use commond sense. You don't sense that when he does come , there
will be a vast number of opinions of whether he is the real one?
I hope you don't think that when He comes there will be flashes of thunder
and lightning? THERE WILL BE NO CHANGE OF THE NORM!!!!!! NO MIRACLES!!!
Sorry, i don't have the exact reference but I am positive, as I learned
this about 2 weeks ago.
One more thing: i also learned (sorry, no source again) that the Gedolai
Hadoar will argue about whether the Messiah is the real one or not, AND
MOST OF THEM WILL BE WRONG!! Ie. ignore him. (Eg. Lubuvitcher and Satmar Rabanim
and Rav Moshe; I didn't say that!!!).

Thus, I feel that when the Messiah does come, that not all (but hopefully 60%)
will make Aliya.

As the Rambam said: " one should always live in Israel, even in a city which
is all Goy, rather than live in Chutz La'aretz but in  a city which is all
Jewish". 
No. I am not a hypocrite. I am moving to Israel in August.
-- 
Eli Posner
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!utcsstat!rao