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From: boyajian@akov68.DEC
Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Subject: Sf or fantasy -- who cares??
Message-ID: <7581@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2-May-84 05:12:07 EDT
Article-I.D.: decwrl.7581
Posted: Wed May  2 05:12:07 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 3-May-84 08:44:40 EDT
Organization: DEC Engineering Network
Lines: 40

>                         TEA WITH THE BLACK DRAGON is emphatically NOT
> science fiction -- I'm confused about why it is up for science fiction
> awards.  Of course I have been confused about this before (I like the
> remark attributed to Alfred Bester which I read in Richard Lupoff's
> WHAT IF? series -- 'The fans -- the wonderful, demented, fans...').
> LYONESSE by Jack Vance, equally non-science-fictional, is up for a
> Nebula.  Oh well.

> Donn Seeley    UCSD Chemistry Dept.       ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdchema!donn

Just what is this concern about whether something is sf or fantasy? Traditional-
ly, the term "science fiction" is taken to include fantasy of various flavors
as well. [Actually, traditionally, sf should be considered a subset of fantasy.]
Until the last ten years or so, when fantasy *really* became a marketable prod-
uct separate from sf, fans simply lumped the two into one genre. The Nebulas and
Hugos have always considered stories in both fields; just because the Hugos are
labelled "the Science Fiction Achievement Awards" and the Nebulas are awarded by
the "Science Fiction Writers of America" doesn't mean that they should ignore
fantasy.
	Some years back, Lin Carter tried to start a separate series of awards
for fantasy (actually, only two per year were ever given out, for Best Novel
and for Grand-Master) called the Gandalfs, but they eventually bit the dust. We
also now have a series of World Fantasy Conventions with its own set of awards
(the Howies -- after H. P. Lovecraft) which garner great prestige themselves,
but this still hasn't deterred fans from nominating and voting fantasy stories
for the Hugos.
	An interesting aside is that the World Fantasy Con members tend more to
separationism than do sf fans. In general, the trend is toward, though by no
means exclusively, "dark fantasy" (ie. horror). There tends to be few stories
generally considered sf nominated for the Howies (a couple of Wolfe's New Sun
novels are recent exceptions). As a matter of fact, Stephen King turned down a
nomination for THE DEAD ZONE as Best Novel one year because he felt that the
book was sf and not fantasy.
	I tend to prefer hard sf to fantasy, myself, but let's not start getting
into a mindset that demands picky categorization.

				  --- jayembee
				      (Jerry Boyajian, DEC Maynard)
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