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From: jim@ism780b.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whither Are We Drifting? - (nf)
Message-ID: <4@ism780b.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 13-Jul-84 18:45:23 EDT
Article-I.D.: ism780b.4
Posted: Fri Jul 13 18:45:23 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 19-Jul-84 02:23:26 EDT
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#R:utzoo:-403300:ism780b:27500006:000:2602
ism780b!jim    Jul  9 10:17:00 1984

> If you think that the unix system programmers are worth as much as the
> ice cream scoopers then I have no idea how you expect people to strive to
> improve themselves. If you accept that the more worthy should be making
> more money than the less worthy, but don't like the disparities, then you
> need some way of making the ice cream scoopers more worthy.

In what way is being a Unix Systems programmer an improvement over being an
ice cream scooper?  Most Unix System programmers I know are more arrogant,
offensive, and selfish than most ice cream scoopers I know.

> At that point, there is nothing that anybody can do. No movement of
> social change is going to help the basic problem of people who want the
> undeserved. It may be that better education of the young might help, but
> I have no great hopes for that. BUT AS LONG AS PEOPLE GO AROUND PROMISING
> THAT THEY WILL RESCUE OTHER PEOPLE LITTLE IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN. It is hard
> work to work your way up from ice cream scooper to systems programmer. It
> is a lot easier to take the programmer's salary away from him and give it
> to 40 ice cream scoopers. and 1 programmer has one vote and 40 scoopers have
> 40...

You see, I like people who are into social change more than I like people
like you.  I like people who have some humility, and who realize that just
because they worked hard and it got them somewhere, that doesn't mean there
aren't others who work hard and don't get somewhere.  That because someone
else's goals and interests aren't high-tech, that doesn't mean they should
have hard lives.  I like people who like to give to other people; I don't
care so much for people who are constantly trying to explain how they earned
everything they have.  This just is not a matter of which politics is right
and which politics is wrong.  I don't like the kind of world you seem to
like, and I will continue to try to change it.

All your ad hominem crap about the nature of political movements, charismatic
leaders vs. ``cannon fodder'' who take up space, large turnouts frequently
causing revolutions, etc. are not going to change the reality of popularist
political movements and revolution.  Most of my technical friends have naive
views about politics because of their backgrounds, social position, and
education (non-liberal arts), but if you are looking for large concentrations
of Marxists and other people with "funny" social theories, try post-graduate
economics and history types.  It is amazing what an education will do for you
that merely being intelligent won't.

-- Jim Balter, INTERACTIVE Systems (ima!jim)