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From: steve@ea.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.unix
Subject: Re: VMesS vs Unix debate - (nf)
Message-ID: <13400007@ea.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 4-Jul-84 19:49:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: ea.13400007
Posted: Wed Jul  4 19:49:00 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 11-Jul-84 00:27:01 EDT
References: <411@teldata.UUCP>
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Nf-ID: #R:teldata:-41100:ea:13400007:000:4035
Nf-From: ea!steve    Jul  4 18:49:00 1984

#R:teldata:-41100:ea:13400007:000:4035
ea!steve    Jul  4 18:49:00 1984

/***** ea:net.unix / teldata!axness /  2:37 am  Jun 30, 1984 */
I just returned from vacation to read this volume of news from various
people telling me how much better VMS is than Unix.  I cannot contain
myself from responding to these messages.  I worked for 2 1/2 years on a
VMS system (11/780) where I was the system manager for the last year.  I
have been a Unix user for the last year.  I have selected various lines
from various articles to respond to.  No personal attacks are intended.  I
respect the fact that we all have opinions so I am merely expressing mine.

=====  W A R N I N G - Not for VMS lovers with weak stomachs =============

Remark #1	*** And VMS has EDT.

		This is not a bad editor so long as you promise never to
		use another terminal not blessed by DEC.  It must also
		run at 9600 baud.  Ever try to use it on an ADM3 or some
		other cheap terminal.  Ever try to use it at 1200 baud.
		Good luck ! You also can't run system commands (like
		grep, sort, etc) from within the editor which is a
		standard practice with Unix editors.


Remark #2	*** FORTRAN runs faster under VMS.

		"Real Programmers don't write in FORTRAN.  FORTRAN is for
		 pipe stress freaks and crystallography weenies"
		- Taken from "Real Programmer Don't Write Specs" which
		  appeared earlier in net.jokes.

		If your whole world revolves around FORTRAN, then you
		deserve VMS.

Remark #3	*** VMS runs faster than Unix in a multiuser environment.

		What the Hell does that mean !

		Lets take an example.  I want to run a job to compile
		my code.  It takes about 5 minutes so I want to run it
		in the background with my error messages going to a file.

		With Unix, I type the compile command as usual, append it
		with >& {filename} to redirect the output and finish it
		off with & so that it runs in the background.  It sends
		a message to my terminal when its finished.

		With VMS, I have to go into that wonderful EDT editor and
		write a DCL command procedure that reassigns SYS$OUTPUT to
		a file and submits my compile to the proper batch queue.
		The average user will probably not be able to send a
		completion message back to the terminal although he/she
		could send a mail message.  This whole mess shouldn't
		take more than 10 minutes assuming that the user is
		familiar with the 10 volume VMS manual set.  I can now
		execute the command procdure to compile my job in the
		background.  Not only is this wasted time, but it has
		distracted me from my intended purpose which is to
		develop software.

		ALSO, with the large number of software tools available
		on Unix, I can get more work done no matter how fast
		VMS can perform a context switch.

		ALSO, it is only a matter of time before fast machines designed
		to run Unix are readily available (have you seen a
		Pyramid 90X ?) for a lot less money that a DEC machine with
		VMS.

Remark #4	*** One can always run a Unix emulator under VMS for
		*** those users who prefer Unix.

		I've used Eunice under VMS and it has a lot of problems.

			a. It is incredibly slow.
			b. It is not Unix - we could not port some C programs
					    from Unix to Eunice.
			c. It is expensive.

Remark #5	*** > No make.  No awk....Perhaps there [are] DEC program
		*** products out there that make life bearable;...

		Yes, there are but do you know what they cost !  Thousands
		of $$ thats how much.  And it doesn't stop there.  The
		cost of software maintanence is also high.  On the system
		I worked on, the cost of maintaining VMS and about 5 compilers
		was over $5,000 per year for a single VAX.


GENERAL FLAME:

		If VMS is so great, get off the damn Unix net and get
		back to work on your wonderful VMS system.

===============================================================================

I feel better now that I've said my peace.  Have I left anything out Jeff ?
Please feel free to respond negatively to this article but I probably won't
read it beacause whatever it is, I've probably already heard it.


						Dave Axness
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