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From: kenn@sdccsu3.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Reply to Doug ALan
Message-ID: <1963@sdccsu3.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 21-Jun-84 18:37:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: sdccsu3.1963
Posted: Thu Jun 21 18:37:53 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 27-Jun-84 00:42:57 EDT
References: <136@uf-csg.UUCP>, <2171@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Organization: Hacker's Haven, U.C. San Diego
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[]

From: ...mit-eddie!nessus (Doug Alan)

Ah!  The newsgroup is coming alive again.  It's been so long I was worried it
was log-jamming up somewhere or slipped to the ol' bit-bucket.  Nice to see
some news again folks!  I'm going to stick this reply into news instead of
mail for some more reading material to flourish.  I'll start sending replies 
as usual once business picks up.

I don't know if you are a new entree or not, Doug.  Most of my comments are
the old, standard remarks 'n questions most of us have already seen before.
Try to answer them, though, I'd like to hear some different opinions.

Anyway, quoting you:

> An abortion is either murder or it isn't.  Something can't be murder
> from only one person's point of view.

It depends on what you consider valid points of view.  The Nazis and the 
Americans had different points of view.  Pro- and Anti-abortionists have
different points of view.  Abortion isn't murder from the Pro-abortionists'
point of view.  So, since something can't be murder from only one person's
point of view, does it make abortion not murder?  Or does the "can't be murder"
phrase mean that the pro-abortionists have an invalid point of view?  Or or or?
Confusing, huh?  I think that second sentence is wrong.  The first is subject 
to opinion.

> If abortion is murder then it shouldn't be allowed whether or not the child
> will be wanted.

Interesting.  What do you call the execution of a criminal?  Should executions
not be allowed whether or not the criminal is wanted?  What about the criminal's
mother and girlfriend, and the husband of the woman he murdered?

> You can't legally murder someone just because no one likes him.  On the other
> hand, if abortion isn't murder, then the father should have no say in
> the matter (legally).  It's not his body.

Ah yes, the black-and-white opinion.  Nope.  Wrong.  Incorrect.  Lack of
sufficent information.  If you make the abortion decision concernt only the
slice of time of the decision, you are forgetting how that baby came to be,
and what it will become.  The baby couldn't be around without the father.
If society demands for to marry the unwed mother, or to pay for (some or all)
of the abortion, he should be included into the abortion decision.  Perhaps
the woman should have veto power, since she'll most likely be stuck with the
baby (it's her body), but the man should have some input.  What do you mean
by "(legally)"?

> (By the way, abortion isn't murder for the same reason that eating a
> carrot isn't murder -- neither carrots nor fetuses are intelligent.)

I do not believe intelligence has anything to do with it.  Human vegetables
are as intelligent as the Safeway variety, and a 'murder' is legal for just
one of them.

				   Kenn the Kenf
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