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From: cfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Absurdity Continued
Message-ID: <609@ihnp4.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 23-Jul-84 00:59:13 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihnp4.609
Posted: Mon Jul 23 00:59:13 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 18-Jul-84 01:53:04 EDT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 95

Very seldom will I reply to an article in net.religion.  I guess that
the flames and such are a bit much to take.  However, in this case, there
were several items in an article by Yosi Hoshen that really angered me.

First, let me state that my position is a Christian.  I believe that the
Bible is the inspired Word of God, and as such it true.  That, I guess,
makes me a fundamentalist.  Next, I believe that unless a person is born
again with the Spirit, he can not enter into Heaven.  All people are born
sinful.  As a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal 
Savior.  That is as fundamentalist as one can get, I guess.

So much for the background.  I am stating my beliefs so that the rest of
this article can be seen in the light of my beliefs.  No flames requested,
this is my opinion, which I will share with anyone who honestly wishes
to share with me.

Yosi wrote: 
>Communists and some fundamentalist religionists have a lot more in 
>common.  Examples of areas of commonality:
>
>	- desire for a stricter authority
>	- very little tolerance for ideas and lifestyles that deviate
>	  from what they define as the norm.
>	- desire to censor literature and music and other art forms
>	  that they feel are out of line.
>	- try to impose their religion/dogma on others.
>	- they know what is good for you
>	- attempting to prevent individuals from making personal
>	- choices that are out of step with their dogma.

Speaking as one who is a fundamentalist Christian, I take a great deal
of offense at what was written.

1.  Our final authority is God, as revealed in the Bible.  Anything
	not specificly prohibited should probably be permitted.  However,
	many items of modern society were not created at the time of
	Christ, so our conscience should be our guide.  When in doubt,
	I ask, "Would Christ do x, y, or z?"  If I truly believe that
	Christ would indeed do x, y, or z, then who am I not to do so?
	I do NOT want the Church, or any person, extending the laws
	as given in the Bible.

2.  I may not understand your lifestyle or ideas, but you are free to
	believe as you wish.  The only part of my lifestyle that I 
	would like for you to adopt is my love of Jesus as my Savior.
	If you accept that offer, the rest of your lifestyle will
	conform to God's will for your life.  

	This world is made of many cultures.  White, suburban, protestant
	is just one of countless lifestyles that are pleasing to God.
	If you are a black, urban Christian, or a rural Mexican Christian,
	it doesn't matter one bit.

3.  Who am I to censor art?  If you, as a Christian, are offended by
	certain art forms, don't expose yourself to them.  I cannot 
	change the overt sexuality of modern music, or the expounding
	of amoral living that some television shows give.  I choose not
	to patronize such art.  Again, the question, "How would I feel
	if Christ were to walk in and see me doing x, y, or z?"  Some
	people are not offended by this art, so I should not impose my
	wishes on them.

4.  I cannot force you to believe what I believe.  I can offer you my
	beliefs, but you are free to reject them.  When I am witnessing
	my faith, I do it with a prayer that God speak through me.
	It is the Holy Spirit that causes a change in people's hearts,
	not the writing of Jeff Williams.

5.  How can I know what is good for you?  If I choose not to drink, smoke,
	or whatever, that is my choice.  If you can honestly say, as a
	Christian, "I am not ashamed of what I am doing," and it is not
	specificly forbidden, then who am I to complain.  (By the way,
	I will serve liquor to friends if they wish.  I even will take
	a glass of wine now and again.  About once a year.)

6.  Are we not free to be sons and daughters of God?  How can I prevent
	you from doing something?  Is what you do prohibited by God?
	Are you harming someone else?  Are you showing love to all of
	those around you?

	Probably the personal choice that I cannot condone is that of
	abortion.  If a woman asks for my opinion before she has an
	abortion, I will try to persuade her not to do so.  However,
	if she confides that she has had an abortion, I will not condemn
	her, because she still is forgiven by God through Christ.  Even
	of the murder of an unborn child.  (I have very strong feelings
	about this, as my wife and I can not have children of our own.)

I hope that I have answered some of the charges leveled at we Bible
thumping fundamentalists.  Please, don't lump all fundamentalists with
the worst-case examples of intolerant Christians.  

				Jeff Williams
				AT&T-Bell Laboratories
				ihnp4!cfiaime