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From: jho@ihuxn.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Absurdity Continued
Message-ID: <769@ihuxn.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Jul-84 13:31:43 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxn.769
Posted: Tue Jul 17 13:31:43 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 18-Jul-84 02:58:15 EDT
References: <609@ihnp4.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 74

Jeff Williams = }
Yosi Hoshen = <

}Very seldom will I reply to an article in net.religion.  I guess that
}the flames and such are a bit much to take.  However, in this case, there
}were several items in an article by Yosi Hoshen that really angered me.

I am sorry to hear that my article has angered you. That was not my
intention.  My complaints were not against religion, but religious
coercion.  I was not trying to attack your faith.  I was only trying
to describe my attitude towards religions from a perspective of a 
secularist.

}First, let me state that my position is a Christian.  I believe that the
}Bible is the inspired Word of God, and as such it true.  That, I guess,
}makes me a fundamentalist.  Next, I believe that unless a person is born
}again with the Spirit, he can not enter into Heaven.  All people are born
}sinful.  As a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal 
}Savior.  That is as fundamentalist as one can get, I guess.

I don't deny your rights for your beliefs.  I oppose anti-religious
coercion as practiced by the USSR, just as I oppose religious coercion in
other parts of the world. 

}Yosi wrote: 
}>Communists and some fundamentalist religionists have a lot more in 
}>common.  Examples of areas of commonality:
}>
}>	- desire for a stricter authority
}>	- very little tolerance for ideas and lifestyles that deviate
}>	  from what they define as the norm.
}>	- desire to censor literature and music and other art forms
}>	  that they feel are out of line.
}>	- try to impose their religion/dogma on others.
}>	- they know what is good for you
}>	- attempting to prevent individuals from making personal
}>	- choices that are out of step with their dogma.

}Speaking as one who is a fundamentalist Christian, I take a great deal
}of offense at what was written.

Why do you assume that I specifically attacked Christians fundamentalists. 
I used the generic term fundamentalists.  The fundamentalist term is
not only reserved for fundamentalist Christians in the US.  The term
is also used to describe the fundamentalist Khumeini Muslims of Iran, 
and Ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel.  Please note that I used the phrase
"some fundamentalist", implying not all. To clarify the issue,
I will restate my position, "I oppose the attempts of *some
religionist fundamentalists* and communists to impose their
religion/dogma on others."  The above examples indicate opposition
to religious coercion, not to religion.

}I hope that I have answered some of the charges leveled at we Bible
}thumping fundamentalists.  Please, don't lump all fundamentalists with
}the worst-case examples of intolerant Christians.  

Please note my above remarks.  Note also that I did not initiate
the *lumping* process.  Bob Brown was the first one to lump together
a large number of organizations as atheists or supporter of atheism.
I was trying to point out that a superset of religions could also
be constructed.

------------------------

I shall be spending my next four weeks in Israel (where all these
religious arguments started).  I shall not be able to answer all the
flame, but I'll be back.
-- 

Yosi Hoshen
Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois
(312)-979-7321
Mail: ihnp4!ihuxn!jho