Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxn.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxn!rlr
From: rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.motss,net.singles
Subject: Re: Jeff's comments - Power of Belief
Message-ID: <803@pyuxn.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 28-Jun-84 20:20:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxn.803
Posted: Thu Jun 28 20:20:53 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 30-Jun-84 04:18:08 EDT
References: <1656@decwrl.UUCP>, <19630@wivax.UUCP> <788@pucc-h>
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway N.J.
Lines: 50

[ODD NUMBERS OF '>'s = SARGENT; EVEN NUMBERS OF '>'s = ROSEN]
> You are assuming that only physical evidence is admissible.  "Rationalists do
> not deny miracles, God, and the supernatural because there is no evidence for
> them.  They deny them because they have limited themselves to an approach
> which shuts out the possibility of such evidence." -- from "What Else?", by
> Doug Dickey.  I find it difficult not to resent being accused of believing
> because of fear and blind faith.  My faith is not blind; I trust God because
> it has been my experience that "God works all things together for good for
> those who love Him"; while certainly I often don't see where a particular
> situation will end up when I entrust it to Him, I have seen other situations
> work out for the best (better than I could have imagined) when I entrusted
> them to Him; since He worked before, I believe He'll work again.

You know, there's an interesting speculation there.  Maybe this should be
co-posted to net.ai or net.sci, but as we have noted innumerable times in this
newsgroup, there are many many examples, Christian and otherwise, of people's
beliefs carrying them through hardships and leading them towards goals. 
Perhaps the almost child-like "I believe you will take care of me" belief, when
strongly persisting in a believer, may tap unused resources in the brain to
help provide knowledge to get one through a situation.  I'm not talking about
a "force" or deity, or about precognitive supernatural capabilities, or about
communal souls and past life experiences.  I'm just talking about the power of
belief putting the brain in a state where it is somehow used more efficiently,
differently, etc.   Just a speculation...

About that comment:  "I find it difficult not to resent being accused of
believing because of fear and blind faith."  You say you trust god.  You
believe in god because you have faith that it exists.  Thus you are trusting
that your faith that god exists is not unfounded and that having that faith
causes good things to happen.  Do good things happen?  (Yes.)  Did I have
faith?  (Yes.)  Did these good things happen before I had faith?  (No.)
Therefore, by post hoc ergo propter hoc, god exists and is working to make
my life better because of my faith.  Resent it if you like, Jeff (just as
others have resented statements you have made), but realize the foundations
from which the statements were made.

> Let us not get into another fruitless, hypothetical discussion as to
> whether other religious-type beliefs would have had the same effect; i.e.
> "What about some imaginary Hindu or Moslem?" questions are just that --
> imaginary.  Let's stick to real case histories.

Apparently the only "physical" evidence shows that such things *only* happen
to Christians.  And the "imaginary" ramblings of those who ask about followers
of other religions is just propaganda and lies, right?  This couldn't be
another example of christocentrism, could it?  (Perhaps we won't hear "case
histories" from followers of other religions, because *they* don't feel the
need to relate their experiences as "proof" of their one and only correct way.)
-- 
a more wretched hive of scum and villainy: not found
					Rich Rosen    pyuxn!rlr