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From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Trish,homosexuals, and dating
Message-ID: <1165@nsc.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 10-Jul-84 14:37:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: nsc.1165
Posted: Tue Jul 10 14:37:35 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 11-Jul-84 01:17:57 EDT
References: <1999@hplabsc.UUCP>
Organization: The Warlocks Cave
Lines: 69

>        I'm personally VERY straight. I think gays either have a hormonal
>  imbalance (very small percentage) or are mentally disturbed.(much larger
>  percentage) 

You forgot the even larger percentage that just happen to want to be gay.

>        But as to Trish's remark about men in general being "macho assholes"
>  I could say that women in general are teasing bitches!

Here we go again, building class generalities based upon specific cases.
Generalities don't work. Just because Elmer Coogan is dead doesn't mean
that all people who are dead are Elmer Coogan. It doesn't work that way,
folks. There are good and bad people of all sexes, genders, and
orientations. Stereotypes are limiting and self defeating.

>        I know of many men who are totally withdrawn from contact with women
>  for fear of rejection. These guys are afraid of the typical woman who
>  (with or without malice and forthought) allows a man to "wine and dine"
>  and fork over the bucks for her- only to tell him to shove off next week.
>  I known several otherwise good, honest women who have used their sexuallity
>  to subsidize their incomes in this way.

I've also known many a man who expects some kind of 'repayment' (what a
nice mellow word for what essentially boils down to prostitution) for
wining and dining and get upset when they don't come across. Look at your
motivations-- do you go out with her because you enjoy her company or
because you want to get laid? Once again, it goes both ways. Sure, she can
supplement her income by going out with people. If all you are trying to do
is get her into bed I'm not sure I blame her for being mercenary. You
certainly are.

>        I'm married, but if I was back in the market again one principle to
>  which I would strongly adhere would be to make the first and second date
>  a mutually pleasing- costless outing; playing tennis, bicycling or going
>  to the zoo,etc. A chance to feel each other out with nothing but some
>  time invested for both parties.

This sounds suspiciously like 'I'm not going to spend money on you until I
see a return on my investment'. Prostitutes guarantee their work with many
fewer complications. 

>        In summary, women may have been burned by men but a lot of men
>  have been burned by women! It may be a regenerative effect. 

Not regenerative. Degenerative. It is a negative feedback cycle. Simply
because so many men and women 'play the games' people are going to get
hurt. Simply because every man and woman is different people are going to
be hurt. Its part of life. 

>  I think
>  with a little more honesty on both sides, both would benefit (without
>  having to become gay?!)

I agree with the need for honesty (I try very hard to be honest in my
relationships, and I'm constantly amazed at how hard it is to get the other
party to accept it... I find the walls are VERY thick sometimes. Getting
through them, though, is always worth it). Everone would benefit. And the
people who want to be gay could still become gay.

chuq

-- 
From a hunting lodge for rich weirdos:			Chuq Von Rospach
{amd,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui			(408) 733-2600 x242

{The meadow party is coming July 14th! Hide the women and sheep!}

Every single day, and every word you say, every game you play,
every night you stay, I'll be watching you.