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From: moiram@tektronix.UUCP (Moira Mallison )
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: experiential processes
Message-ID: <3098@tektronix.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Jul-84 17:33:44 EDT
Article-I.D.: tektroni.3098
Posted: Tue Jul 17 17:33:44 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 19-Jul-84 03:07:24 EDT
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
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>>ism780!@judy:

>> You make several good arguments and I will adjust my statements accordingly.

Ditto:  your later reference to Scientology prompted an "Oh-h-h-h, I under-
stand now."  I briefly got into scientology about 10 years ago and quickly
skedaddled...it didn't look very healthy to me for many of the reasons you
stated.  

I believe what we have operating here is a certain tunnel vision
(certainly on my part).  So at this point I will stop trying to generalize
about experiential processes.  My experience was with a small now almost-
defunct organization called Motivation Management Service and their Self-
Esteem Workshop.  Because many of my friends have been through the est 
training or have attended events at Esalen, I believe that my comments can
be extended to these groups as well.  Beyond that, I won't pretend to vouch
for any specific organization.

>> They may not be dangerous to the average person.  My concern is for those
>> with mental and emotional difficulties. 
>>
>> EP's can be dangerous to the unstable.

I agree, absolutely.  I KNOW that MMS was not interested in having those folks
in a workshop.  They conducted fairly lengthy telephone interviews with parti-
cipants before the workshop began.

>> As I stated in my first article, DM's which are no longer necessary will fall
>> away by the natural process of living.  The one you are referring to is
>> probably one of those.  

I kind of like expediting the process, though.  These dm's get kind of boring
sometimes :-).

>> You state that no one forces the person.  Yet most of these workshops work
>> on the psychology of peer pressure.  Just try saying you don't want to talk
>> about an area of your life in one of those meetings.  You will have everyone
>> else in the room saying things like "You're resisting" and "Trust us", etc.

Again, this was absolutely NOT my experience.  It was an intensely personal
journey.  People were encouraged to write down the answers to questions in
a notebook, questions which are designed to get underneath the analytical/
intellectual BS I find myself falling prey to so often.  Afterwards, there
was sharing, but it was not 'around-the-circle', it was by putting a hand up,
so there was no pressure to share at all.  More often than not, there wasn't
enough time for all the people who wanted to, to speak.

>> 4)  You are absolutely correct.  There is a difference between cults
>> and these groups.  But it is more a tactical difference than anything else.
>> The people I have known who get involved with EP projects have ended up
>> spending ALL THEIR SPARE TIME in workshops, getting people into them, etc.
>> And with their time has gone their money.  They don't always live in communes
>> as most cults do.  But, then, Scientology is an experiential process in which
>> you do not have to become a member.  But it is also a cult.  And there are
>> many people who, after having been trained, wind up as members (usually after
>> all their savings have been already spent).

I guess the lesson in all this is to not jump to hasty conclusions based on
experiences with one of the human potential trainings.  I would agree that
Scientology is close to a cult...and much more interested in involving the 
individual wholly in the process...and in extracting more and more money from
the individual.

I got involved in three follow-up kinds of things with MMS:  the first was 
a one-day Self-Management Workshop (akin to other Time Management Workshops)
for $125.  This included a beautifully leather-bound Organizer: does not
seem inconsistent with other offerings by consulting firms in this area.

The second was called the Personal Support Network.  It met two hours a week
and was free.  The third was a volunteer group that merely used the office
for meeting space and was an outgrowth of the PSN.  The purposes of these
was to learn to ask for the kind of support we need in getting what we want.
This is based on assertiveness training techniques.

Well, I hope we can put this subject to rest now.  If I'm getting tired of 
it, everyone else must have started using the 'n' key a long time ago :-).

Moira
tektronix!moiram