Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!wjh12!genrad!decvax!ittvax!bunker!gmm From: gmm@bunker.UUCP (Gregory M. Mandas) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Bigots (an outsider's view) Message-ID: <456@bunker.UUCP> Date: Thu, 19-Jul-84 11:52:26 EDT Article-I.D.: bunker.456 Posted: Thu Jul 19 11:52:26 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 27-Jul-84 01:15:39 EDT Lines: 143 [] Homosexuals, bigots and assholes, an outsiders views. The Left >>>>> "I think most straight men are your egotistical, >>>>> chauvenist, insensitive, macho assholes." The Right >>>> I am not saying your homosexuality is a problem; >>>> it certainly shouldn't be considered so. It is your narrow-minded bigotry >>>> which is a problem. The Left >>>Obviously she used some pretty harsh language. But you have taken it out >>>of context. And then you have unreasonably extrapolated in a desperate The Right >>> (1) Trish said, "I think most straight men are your egotistical, >>> chauvenist, insensitive, macho assholes." How much extrapolating >>> do you have to do? She has a problem! If you disagree, think >>> about some other statements of the form: >>> >>> Most are . >>> The Left: >> >> >> > I am not saying your homosexuality is a problem; >> > it certainly shouldn't be considered so. It is your narrow-minded bigotry >> > which is a problem. >> >>These are the type of statements I have been getting irate with. >>It is clear, concise, to the point, and leaves no doubt as to its intent. >>Trish never posted an article with the title "most men are ". >>That line was just drawn out of an article with a totally different >>purpose in mind. Other quotes (paraphrased) during this discussion have been: "Just because she used a negitive argument doesn't mean she made the choice for negitive reasons. The negitive reason for not liking to be with men is actually a positive reason for her homosexuality." "I cann't believe the way people take what is writen so literaly" Round and Round We Go. OK, Come On Folks. First, When ever someone says Nigger, Hymie/Hymietown, etc, they are judged as being a bigot, because the criteria for bigotry is ones words and actions. To all participants in this discussion, "Choose your words carefully. They are the only things we can formulate opions on in this medium." We readers can not form opions on what we can not see, your actions. Trish. We haven't heard from you in a long time. I do not take this as defacto approvial of the arguments of your supporters. I think you have left the picture due to the "heat in the kitchen." I don't blame anyone for not wanting to jump into a discussion with the level of flaming that belongs in net.flames, not here! As far as attitude and negitive reasoning, I will use my latest job hunting experience as an analogy. If I had walked into an interview and said: "I am leaving my last position because management didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground and had an entire 20 person project team sitting on their hands for six months and imposed 5 different management structures in as many months. I haven't written a line of code in months. I haven't even pumped out a memo. (All true. Thank god they are not on the net.) I would have been showed the door. NO employer wants a person who does things for negitive reasons. What I said was: "I am looking for opportunities. I do not feel my present position offers me the potential to learn new concepts and be current in this market place." ( Also true, in a political sense. Paraphrased, I don't really talk like this.) Point being, no amount of negitive reasoning can be considered positive reasoning. Words are the porthole into your feelings. Employers and people in general want positive feeling people around them. It makes the atmosphere more enjoyable. Why did Trish choose to be a homosexual? I don't think it was due to her statement, "...most men are ......" I have known both male and female homosexuals and some are my friends. (Boy, this sounds trite. I will explain further.) When I was in school I had the same problems dealing with women as most overstressed, oversexed 20 year old males living in a fraternity house. On summer break I took a job in theater. I was one of two straits (out of 20 people) in an environment where we worked 14 hours a day, 7 days a week. I began to be incorporated into the homosexual life style and found it was a lot of fun. These people accepted me as a person. I did not partake in the homosexual act due to my feelings, I like women, which is the reason I choose to not be homosexual. What I found out about relationships in general was, "If you are not hung up on getting a date you will not act like a jerk. You will be able to open your mind to the interests of others because you are under no stress and can relate to them as the person they are." When I got back to school I saw "jerks" and realized they were under self imposed stress and could see past it. Some people try to reduce the stress by taking the attitude, "I don't need it." This is a false, superficial point of view which may come accross as, "Boy, this guy is a macho asshole." As the positive attitude is contagious, so is the attitude, "Hey, I'm a person, Do your feelings match mine?" One thing men in this group have not mentioned is the fact it is very difficult to carry on a conversation with a VERY attractive female when their ids are asking, "Hey Babe, how can I get you into the sack." (I know. It can lead to some pretty interesting verbal slips and slaps.) Who am I? An ousider. After a major lesson in life I had two very meaningfull relationships and got married. Why am I in this news group? I hope I can shed some light to those who face the problems I faced. I am not advocating stopping this discussion. I would like it to become a calm discussion where people do a little more asking and less telling. In light of my comments I think we can carry on and find out if others have gone through what I have. I would also like to know the true reason Trish chose her sex over mine. I came very close to becomming a homosexual but stopped short due to my middle America up-bringing. Greg Mandas ittvax!bunker!gmm PS. Youse guys Talking about the need for beauty in your partner. Want to know what happens after two years of mariage and 9.5 months of pregnancy? (hint: No beauty, NO SEX, but a lot of love!!) PSS. The "Left" and "Right" are to depict two sides of a discussion, nothing else.