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From: alan@allegra.UUCP (Alan S. Driscoll)
Newsgroups: net.singles,net.women
Subject: Re: what the big deal is
Message-ID: <2642@allegra.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 24-Jul-84 22:10:51 EDT
Article-I.D.: allegra.2642
Posted: Tue Jul 24 22:10:51 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 27-Jul-84 02:39:45 EDT
References: <7851@umcp-cs.UUCP> <131@wjvax.UUCP>, <912@pyuxn.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill
Lines: 52

> Reread what I've said
> about why complaining that "men also have it bad, so don't put all the blame
> on us" is a real live evasion of the first order and get back to me.

Ok, I'll address your point.  Let's look at your perception of women as
victims in an oppressor/victim relationship from two perspectives.

Political perspective:

In order to oppress a group in a democracy, at least one of the following
conditions must hold:

	(1) The group is a minority.

	(2) The group does not have voting rights.

Since women are a VOTING MAJORITY in this country, you're comparison of
their situation to that of Blacks in the 1950's is simply bogus.  As a
VOTING MAJORITY, they have MORE say in their situation than anyone else.
(Notice where the strongest opposition to the ERA is coming from.)

Emotional perspective:

You have to deal with societal norms in certain situations (e.g., work).
Not much you can do about this, short of becoming a hermit.  Still, you
choose who to socialize with, who to develop relationships with, etc.
Superficial involvements may be largely forced on you, but deeper ones
are by choice.

You accuse me of having inaccurate perceptions because I surround myself
with "forward-thinking" people.  But don't you see -- anyone can do what
I've done.  I create my own environment.  So can you.  So can any woman.
(And I know many who have.)  There are enough people out there, enough
possibilities, that you can create whatever environment you like.

So, from both perspectives, women are essentially free.  How they use
that freedom is their own responsibility.  I prefer to save words like
"oppressor" and "victim" for situations in which there is a true lack
of freedom, imposed from the outside.  Where the individual is free to
accept or reject a norm, "ignorance" would be a more appropriate term.

Finally, I consider the traditional roles a losing proposition, at best,
from either end, not a black/white, winner/loser situation.  Men have it
better in some respects, women in others, but overall, both lose out.  I
didn't reject the game for ethical reasons (what you would call "returning
the extra bottle of milk"), but for practical reasons (my own happiness).

-- 

	Alan S. Driscoll
	AT&T Bell Laboratories