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From: hawk@oliven.UUCP (Rick)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: (30% quoting) Society, laws, other basic fun stuff.....
Message-ID: <418@oliven.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 29-Aug-84 13:53:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: oliven.418
Posted: Wed Aug 29 13:53:40 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 1-Sep-84 10:08:42 EDT
References: <1019@shark.UUCP>
Organization: University of Waikiki
Lines: 60

>By not
>deciding, society can actually try both (or all 3, 4...) choices, since
>people are different, and will try different things. (this is especially
>likely, if there is disagreement on a matter.)  If an issue is not
>clear in YOUR mind, you don't commit yourself blindly to only one
>course of action, do you? 

The two positions aren't aborting and not aborting.  I don't know of any
position requiring abortion, although it really wouldn't suprise me.  One
position (pro-choice) says that a women should be able to decide whether or not
to have an abortion and the other side (pro-life) says that the fetus has
rights and therefore must not be aborted.  The two positions are mutually
exclusive.

>A fetus before the first trimester (do I have
>my laws straight?) is NOT a legal person.

No, you don't; there is no such law.  The Supreme Court decided that the right
of a women to control her body overrode the interests of the state to protect
potential citizens for the first two trimesters, but that the state could
restrict third trimester abortions.  They then through out all existing
abortion laws in all 50 states completely.  These were the laws that society
set up, having made its decision on the abortion matter.  The rights of the
fetus did not enter into the decision, as whether or not the fetus is a legal
person is a grey area.

Congress could probably define a legal person, and could probably defend its 
constitutionality--Congress's mission is to carry out those duties assigned to
it under the Constitution, and a definition of a legal person has become a
legitimate need to carry out its duties.  Actually, the state legislatures
should each produce their own legal definition for their laws.  Currently all
those born and all corporations are legal persons (just try to abort big blue
:-)).  Please note that fetuses can currently inherit property and have
lawsuits filed on their behalf.

>(That's US.  Embryos are OTHERS.  They are not us.

How about those under age 18?  They have no legal voice.  Does this mean we can
start putting them to sleep just like are dogs once we decide it's OK?  This
ain't my idea of a solution for problem children.

>Then the proper course is to allow, but not require abortions.

Who ever suggested requiring them?

>To require or forbid abortions is to impose the desires of
>some members of society upon all the members, as if the decision
>really had been made.  This is tyranny. 

1.  The decision had been made.  Nine men on the Supreme Court tossed out that
which had been decided.

2.  Once you write to you legislature demanding the repeal of the 14th and  15th
ammendments, demand the repeal of the civil rights act of 1965 and all laws
against discrimination in the workplace, I'll take your tyranny argument
seriously.  Until then, forget it.

-- 
   rick                                     (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC)
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