Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: Notesfiles; site ea.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!mgnetp!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!ea!mwm From: mwm@ea.UUCP Newsgroups: net.philosophy Subject: Re: the problem with libertarianism - (nf) Message-ID: <9800033@ea.UUCP> Date: Fri, 24-Aug-84 17:50:00 EDT Article-I.D.: ea.9800033 Posted: Fri Aug 24 17:50:00 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 29-Aug-84 05:30:48 EDT References: <8135@umcp-cs.UUCP> Lines: 35 Nf-ID: #R:umcp-cs:-813500:ea:9800033:000:1425 Nf-From: ea!mwm Aug 24 16:50:00 1984 #R:umcp-cs:-813500:ea:9800033:000:1425 ea!mwm Aug 24 16:50:00 1984 > is from: --The aspiring iconoclast, > Paul Torek, umcp-cs!flink > Libertarians have yet to supply an argument for regarding 'liberty' as the > overriding value they take it to be. Furthermore, I submit that such an > argument is not forthcoming. Reason: it is impossible to give a sound > argument for a false conclusion. Yes, you won't get an argument. Why? The key can be found in your own words: > LIBERTY DOES NOT HAVE THE OVERRIDING VALUE WHICH THEY SEEM TO ATTRIBUTE TO IT. The key word is "value." What I think liberty is worth is a value call, and as such can't be explained. Let's turn the challenge around: Can you tell me why freedom - either mine or anybody else's - is worth *less* than a human life? I don't think you can do it, because that's a value call. If you can, I'll attempt to show why freedom is worth so much. And yes, I think that freedom is worth more than a human life, even if it is the one I'm most attached to. I'd rather be dead than a slave. People dying trying to escape from southern plantations suggest that I'm not alone in this sentiment. > But we (non-libertarians) ARE stronger than you (libertarians) are! > And since we ARE stronger than you are, the PRACTICAL burden of argument > rests on you to convince us we are wrong. You're right, you are. So we bitch about the coercion, just like you bitch about people stronger than you doing things you don't like.