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From: dubois@uwmacc.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Saints and Sinners
Message-ID: <260@uwmacc.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 6-Sep-84 08:02:50 EDT
Article-I.D.: uwmacc.260
Posted: Thu Sep  6 08:02:50 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 13-Sep-84 19:33:51 EDT
Organization: UWisconsin-Madison Academic Comp Center
Lines: 55


Ken Perlow made the statement that sinners are intrinsically
more interesting than saints.  I asked why.

> [Ken Perlow]
> I guess I'd better speak up then.  Christians do not have a lock on
> the concept of sainthood.  And I thought we were all supposed to be
> sinners in the eyes of God, well your God, anyway.

That's right.  And that means me, too.  But did Christ die so
that we would *remain* sinners, or does He want us to die to
the world and ourselves and be raised as new creatures (such as,
for example, saints)?  Regarding the lock:  As Christ said He
was the only way to God, He evidently would hold that His
people *do* have a lock on sainthood.

> You don't have to be a Christian to want to live an exemplary life,
> nor to feel you are not doing it as well as you could.  It's the
> trying and failing--irrespective of religious particulars--that's
> interesting.

First sentence: agreed.  Second sentence: it's also nice to try,
and succeed.   But we don't succeed in our own strength (God's
strength is shown through our weakness).  The Holy Spirit
empowers the saint to live a holy life.  Note that I'm not trying
to imply that I'm completely satisfied and smug about how righteous
I am.  I come across like it, I guess.  Any saintliness in me is
God's doing.  Any sin in me is my own fault, and my own
responsibility.

> Is that clear?  If not, please realize that we do not share the
> same taxonomy of sin.  I suppose I should have said "sinners by
> their own definition are more interesting...", but as you see,
> it doesn't scan as well.

It also doesn't answer the question much.  If it's just a matter
of definition, why did you bother to say it?  Specifically, in
Jeff's case, he is a Christian, so your definition wouldn't
apply to him, therefore directing the comment to him wouldn't
help him much?

> As for your question, "What's so exciting about sin?", the answer's
> the same as the price of the yacht: "If you have to ask, you can't
> afford it."

Not an answer, Ken.  I've lived a life of sin, so I know what
it's all about.  And it isn't interesting at all compared to
a life of service to Father/Son/Holy Spirit.  Not at all.
Which is why I asked why you say so.  I'm still asking.
-- 
Paul DuBois		{allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois

Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage forever: for they
are the rejoicing of my heart.
					Psalm 119:111