Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2.chuqui_test 8/21/84; site nsc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!mgnetp!ihnp4!nsc!chuqui From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq) Newsgroups: net.singles,net.women Subject: Re: Trish revisited, calmly Message-ID: <1365@nsc.UUCP> Date: Sun, 26-Aug-84 11:34:07 EDT Article-I.D.: nsc.1365 Posted: Sun Aug 26 11:34:07 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 27-Aug-84 00:34:30 EDT References: <977@pucc-h> <992@pucc-h> Organization: Bryn Myrrdin Lines: 94 Well, I had to break my vow of silence some time, may the Goddess forgive me my transgressions.... >I suspect that many a (seemingly?) insensitive man may have a dream that some >"perfect" woman is going to graciously, with incredible humility, take him as >SO and thereby, shall we say, forgive him his sins and redeem him; that by >submitting her (imagined) purity and perfection to the possible depredations >of his impurity and imperfection, she would somehow relieve him of the gnawing >pain that comes from knowing that no matter how much one grows as a person, >one is never perfect; one always has sins. In other words, men are looking >for a woman to play the role of Christ in a visible, palpable manner. I don't know who should be more insulted by this-- men, women, or Gods. I know I am. Is it my imagination or is Jeff contracting a serious case of Religion on the Brain? Jeff, last time I looked, they didn't let women be priest. Asking them to absolve you of your guilt isn't in their job description. True, a woman who wants to be my SO will have to accept my faults and foibles because I'm not going to change them just for her (I might change them if I decide I want to, but not because she wants me to). Also, I'm going to accept hers on the same level. But asking her to take away the guilt of being you is silly! You shouldn't be guilty for being you in the first place. If you don't LIKE the way you are and are creating all of these feelings of guilt about it, don't ask someone for absolution. Ask yourself WHY you don't like yourself and then go out and change it. Anything else is a cop out. If you don't like yourself you will find that it is VERY hard for others to like you. Believe me, it shows. >It is >probably for this reason that a man takes it as such a special honor to be >the first man to have sex with a particular woman -- that she cares so much >for him that she sacrifices even her virginity for him -- a blood sacrifice, >yet! Perhaps somehow the verse, "Without shedding of blood there is no >remission [of sins]" is floating around in their subconsciousnesses. Ack. Should I laugh, or should I throw up? The historical purposes of virginity were simply that it was the only way that you could truly prove that anything that popped back out later was yours. Bloodlines tended to be VERY important for things like inheritances and so proof of the bloodline was similarly important. There is also (in cases) situations where a person gives someone they care for something they can only give once (well, it can be successfully faked, but that is beside the point.) Blood sacrifices? What are we, cannibals? Even us druids gave up blood sacrifices ages (well, weeks) ago... >A darker possibility here is that a man may, at bottom, really have it in for >women -- really, actually, hate them, or at least bear a grudge against that >side of the human species. Thus, if his feelings of attraction to women, or >to a particular woman, are carefully analyzed, he may actually be considering >her to be pure and perfect with an eye to how good it would feel (emotionally >as well as physically) to defile all that sweet purity. Note that this >entails, again, his considering himself as wondrously impure, so that he can >be the defiling agent -- unless, of course, he can even gain pleasure from >the thought of a woman being defiled by someone other than himself, say by >rape, or by (if homosexuality disagrees with him, as it does with me) >lesbianism. Jeff, what HAVE you been smoking? I'd love a couple of Kilo's if you have any to spare. Should do wonders for my meditation... (joke, dammit!) As far as I know (please let me know if I'm wrong...) there are only two ways a man can tell a virgin from a non-virgin. 1) she tells him. 2) he hunkers down on his haunches and looks. I've never noticed any difference in things like smell, and from the stats on teenage (and pre-teenage!) pregnancy age certainly doesn't do any good. I don't even pretend to understand your meanins and mootivations of this-- they certainly don't jibe with mine, whatever they are. I would rather just have a nice pleasant evening helping someone feel good. That isn't impure, and I'm certainly not out to defile them. Of course, maybe I'm different from the rest of the world. Again. >I have been criticized by one or two of my Christian brothers because I >sometimes do purchase Playboy. But it is astonishing what you find out when >you "show God your dirty pictures", as one pastor friend of mine put it -- >i.e. be appallingly honest about your sexual fantasies; Playboy can thus >sometimes serve as a focusing device. Hmm... maybe I AM different. The best part of Playboy for me is the fiction. Oh, well... I worry a LOT about people who are so insecure about they own sexuality that they need to foist their insecurities on others to prove that they are appropriate. If you like Playboy (and whatever it brings into your mind) there isn't anything wrong with that. >Anyway, returning to the theme of my earlier paragraphs, what would seem to be >necessary for marriage or SO-ship is that a man become sufficiently accepting >of his own and everyone else's sins/imperfections that he can be intimate with >a woman who is just as sinful/imperfect as he is, and love her nevertheless. sigh. Jeff, I think you worry too much... >My only question is: how on earth can anyone pull this off? The easiest way I've found is to simply stop worrying about it and let it happen... -- From the depths of the Crystal Cavern: Chuq Von Rospach {amd,decwrl,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA Dreams, dreams, enchanter! Gone with the harp's echo when the strings fall mute; with the flame's shadow when the fire dies. Be still, and listen.