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Path: utzoo!watmath!sunybcs!forys
From: forys@sunybcs.UUCP (Jeff Forys)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sex, makeup and vanity
Message-ID: <280@sunybcs.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 30-Aug-84 21:19:29 EDT
Article-I.D.: sunybcs.280
Posted: Thu Aug 30 21:19:29 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 31-Aug-84 01:35:21 EDT
References: <1326@wateng.UUCP>, <268@sunybcs.UUCP>, <360@rocksvax.UUCP>, <273@sunybcs.UUCP>, <405@rocksvax.UUCP>
Organization: SUNY/Buffalo Computer Science
Lines: 61

From dw@rocksvax.UUCP (Don Wegeng)  Posted: Thu Aug 30 11:10:16 1984
> Jeff, I have a problem with your reply to my posting.  You say that
> I should not only observe behavior, but also ask *why*.  The implication
> that I get from this is that I will be able to determine *why*,

So far, so good... only that you *might* be able to determine why.

> and that I can then decide whether their reason(s) is(are) *good*.
> Finally, all of this analysis will put me in a position where I can
> then tell these people (1) why they are doing what they do, and (2)
> tell them whether their behavior is proper.  (this is exactly what
> you've been doing in your postings, so I suspect that I'm correct
> about this)

Here is where you lose it :-).  I don't say what I believe, is correct.
I don't know for sure.  I can only make assumptions and generalizations
based on collected data (they may be right or wrong, I don't know).  Since
these are opinions and generalizations, I am careful to add disclaimers
where necessary ("In my opinion", "I think", "It seems", etc).  Also, what
do you define as "proper behavior"?  It depends on the culture you are
dealing with and even then, there are many variations.  Even things like
robbing a bank may not be totally "wrong" -- what if the bank robber lost
his job and has a starving family to support?  To every rule, there are
exceptions and you must *always* be aware of this fact.

> I do not agree with this reasoning.  It's quite natural to
> think about why people do what they do, but to then presume that
> you can accurately answer that is a bold statement.

Yea, it is a bold statement, *I* would never make it (that's not to
say everyone wouldn't :-).

> Everyone has likes and dislikes, just as everyone has their own
> ideas about what is right and wrong.  If you have problems with
> people wearing a lot of makeup (or even wearing *any* makeup), then
> don't associate with people who do these things.

If I don't associate with them, how am I to learn about them?  What you
are telling me to do is shut myself off to part of society because I
don't understand them... That's stupid! (the idea, not you).  The only
way I'll ever understand (if that's even possible) is to keep meeting
new people.  I guess some people get to a point where they really don't
care "why" anymore -- I hope it doesn't happen to me!

> Don't try to force these values on the rest of us, because it won't work.

I am not out to change anyone's values.  I really don't care whether you
agree or disagree.  Actually, I'd rather hear from those who disagree
since they are the ones whose views differ from mine.  When I get a letter
of disagreement from someone, I give them my point of view and my reasons
hoping they will re-respond with their views and their reasons.  I've said
it many times now, Each to his own.

> "Are you mostly engineer, or are you mostly human being?"

A good quote.  I *am* a human being, but I know I'd be lying if I said
that logic and science don't effect my thinking on many subjects.


I don't know why the thought came to me,		And now...
Why I'm here I really can't see.			Jeff Forys