Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site varian.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!zehntel!varian!fred From: fred@varian.UUCP (Fred Klink) Newsgroups: net.bicycle Subject: Re: Why I blow off STOP signs Message-ID: <259@varian.UUCP> Date: Sat, 3-Nov-84 12:57:56 EST Article-I.D.: varian.259 Posted: Sat Nov 3 12:57:56 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 6-Nov-84 06:34:43 EST References: <16200065@uiucdcsb.UUCP>, <1606@wateng.UUCP> <9672@watmath.UUCP> Organization: Varian, Walnut Creek, CA Lines: 40 One other point to be made about stop signs and bikes is the response of drivers to the bike rider that does attempt to obey the law. On nearly every occasion that I have tried to behave like a car at a stop sign, i.e. come to a full stop and then proceed after all those vehicles that stopped before you have gone, one of two things happens: 1. A driver whose turn to go preceeds mine will get either flustered or angry that I haven't run the stop sign and that he has to deal with me on equal footing with other cars. If I've stopped in a track stand (balanced without unstrapping my feet) the problem is even worse. These drivers usually wave frantically at me to go with the result that all other drivers also see this as a signal to go! The result can be real chaos with, of course, the bicycle blamed for it all. 2. Drivers either don't see (or decide not to see) the bike rider and proceed out of turn leaving me to contest for the next opening. While more potentially dangerous, this situation is easier to deal with than (1) because I'm used to having my right-of-way violated. In these cases I still try not to violate anyone's right of way or make matters worse, because I find the next driver is usually more reasonable. As with most social problems, the drivers who cause this one are a minority. The upshot of all this is that in traffic on a bike I *do* obey the traffic laws just as I would in my car. When I'm by myself on the road, either with bike or car, I'm a little more lax about the laws, especially things like the stop-sign in the middle-of-nowhere. This seems to have worked well for me as I have no moving violation tickets in 15 years of driving and riding. I think its very important, for your health if nothing else, that when on a bicycle you gain the respect of other vehicles by obeying the laws, re- gardless of how pointless they may seem. Another writer said "the law is the law" and the social contract we exist under requires that we accept that no one (at least no one who writes on this net!), is above it. PS- to the writer who found European drivers more courteous to bikes and pedestrians-- ever been to Italy or France?