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From: allenm@ittvax.UUCP (Allen Matsumoto)
Newsgroups: net.kids
Subject: Re: A Useful Deception (useful to whom?)
Message-ID: <1530@ittvax.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 12-Nov-84 14:01:01 EST
Article-I.D.: ittvax.1530
Posted: Mon Nov 12 14:01:01 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 13-Nov-84 08:23:44 EST
References: <209@desint.UUCP>
Organization: ITT-ATC, Stratford Ct.
Lines: 75


     > I am not generally in favor of deceiving one's children.
     > Indeed, I place a lot of value on dealing straightly, and
     > have found this to be a successful approach.  But a friend
     > of mine learned a little trick that is certainly very
     > useful, and seems to me to be a fairly harmless lie.  You
     > simply teach your kid (it helps to start very young) that
     > they only grow when they are asleep.  This makes bedtimes
     > much easier; you simply point out that they need to sleep to
     > grow big and strong so they can do all those grown-up things
     > they want to do.  In some sense, this is even true; I just
     > put a lot more emphasis on the growth part and less on the
     > health part.  --
     > 
     > 	Geoff Kuenning
     > 	First Systems Corporation
     > 	...!ihnp4!trwrb!desint!geoff

I don't like this approach at all.  As either a general or a specific
solution.  I don't believe in trying to deceive my children.  I do
occasionally slip up and pull a "fast one", but I don't plan on
tricking them.  It may be a "fairly harmless lie", but do you need any
sort of lie to get kids to sleep?

I think that if you have a real reason for something, such as getting
the kids abed by some hour, you can explain it to them in a manner
they understand.  Our general reason is so they won't be tired and
grouchy the next day.  "If you don't get enough sleep, you'll be tired
and grouchy tomorrow and you'll just get in trouble.  That won't be
any fun so just go to bed and get some rest."

What's wrong with "We try to get to bed as close to __ o'clock as
possible."  At our house, bedtime is 8 to 8:30, except for negotiable
excuses.  Our kids are 8, 4, and 1.  (The 1 year old goes to bed when
she is obviously tired, which varies from about 7 to about 9.)  This
may be autocratic, but you're not lying to them.  I wouldn't want my
kids to learn I've consciously lied.  (I even pay for their admissions
to things when they become old enough to miss the "free for 5 and
under" type limits.  They know how old they are, even if you fool the
ticket sellers)

As a SPECIFIC problem, I really wouldn't deceive kids about going to
sleep.  For one thing, I don't think anyone knows why people need
sleep.  If it's for growth, why not sleep 20 hours a day?  Why don't
adults continue growing?  What happends when your kids can't fall
asleep?   Do you want them to worry about not growing?

What about MENTAL growth?  I think a lot of mental growth occurs when
you are awake.  Do you really want to tell your kids you want them to
grow big but soporific?  I think most of us can remember lying awake
with great thoughts in our heads keeping us awake (or they seemed like
great thoughts at the time).

If you want a technique for getting them in bed, try convincing them
that you really want them in bed, and you'll keep putting them in bed,
and that it's no fun to stay up after bedtime.  If it's too dark, put
on the hall light.  If they are scared, stay for a while and tell them
a story or sing them a song.  If they scream and shout, tell them
you'll close the door if they can't keep from disturbing others.
These kinds of things usually work, unless your primary motive is to
get them in bed so you can get to something you yourself want.  When
we have people over and want the kids quiet for ourselves, we'll try
other tricks.  Letting them sleep in our bed often works.

Most of our kids' complaints can be addressed with some means which
ALSO keeps them in bed.  That tends to take more time than tying them
to their beds, either with rope or tricks, but I happen to think it
will be worth it in the long run.

I know it's trite, but "kids are people, too."  
-- 
			Allen Matsumoto
			ITT Adv. Tech. Center, Stratford, CT 06497
			203-385-7218       
			(decvax!ittvax!allenm)