Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site utastro.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!wjh12!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!utastro!bill From: bill@utastro.UUCP (William H. Jefferys) Newsgroups: net.origins Subject: Re: Creationists are not stupid Message-ID: <738@utastro.UUCP> Date: Sun, 4-Nov-84 09:50:04 EST Article-I.D.: utastro.738 Posted: Sun Nov 4 09:50:04 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 6-Nov-84 04:51:36 EST References: <222@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: UTexas Astronomy Dept., Austin, Texas Lines: 69 Some suggestions for reading on the topic of "what makes creationists tick?" *Science and Creationism*, Ashley Montagu, Editor. Oxford University Press, 1984. This book has two relevant articles. The first is George M. Marsden's "Understanding Fundamentalist Views of Science", pp. 95-116. The second is Kenneth E. Boulding's "Toward an Evolutionary Theology", pp. 142-158. This is an extremely useful book, and these are only two of many excellent articles. There is an entire section devoted to the notorious Arkansas case. *Evolution versus Creationism: The Public Education Controversy*, J. Peter Zetterberg, Editor, Oryx Press 1983. An interesting article relevant to this topic and to a discussion which took place recently in this newsgroup is "An Engineer Looks at the Creationist Movement" by John Patterson. It documents the extraordinarily large amount of influence that professional engineers (who by the way are not scientists although they have somewhat similar technical training) have on the Creationist movement. I might mention in passing also the article "Six 'Flood' Arguments Creationists Can't Answer", by Robert J. Schadewald, which effectively refutes the statement made in Ray Miller's recent "Pamphlet #1" to the effect that Henry Moore's "Flood Geology" predicts very much the same geological record as does standard geology. He remarks, "In pseudoscience, hypotheses are erected as defenses against the facts. Pseudoscientists frequently offer hypotheses flatly contradicted by well-known facts which can be ignored only by well-trained minds. Therefore, to demonstrate that creationists are pseudoscientists, one need only carry some creationist hypotheses to their logical conclusions". He then proceeds to do this. (This article is reprinted from *Creation/Evolution*, Issue IX (Summer 1982). One rather unusual book is Davis A. Young's "Christianity and the Age of the Earth" (Zondervan 1982). Written by an evangelical Christian geologist who rejects evolution while accepting the ancient age of the Earth, it is directed towards creationists of the Henry Moore/Duane Gish variety who fear evolution because of its alleged contradiction with Scripture. He effectively refutes creationist claims regarding thermodynamics, "Flood Geology", radiometric dating, and Thomas Barnes' arguments regarding the geomagnetic field. In addition, he has lengthy sections which bear on the question of why creationists think that way. Much of the book is devoted to showing to "young Earth" creationists that they need not fear the fact of an old earth. Another unusual, one might say bizarre, book, is William Lee Stokes "The Genesis Answer". Stokes accepts the findings of science and attempts to find literal readings of Genesis that parallel these findings. Not very successful, in my opinion, but interesting and relevant nevertheless. Finally, there is no substitute for reading creationist literature. Not only will a careful reading of the literature prepare one for the kinds of arguments one is likely to encounter in debate, but they will demonstrate how hollow are the claims of creationists that creationism is any more than pseudoscience. To counter those who claim that creationism "science" is independent of Genesis, it is sufficient to read in parallel the different editions of creationist books that are designed for public and private schools. This is also very helpful in understanding creationist motivation, because frequently the public school edition will make statements whose motivation becomes clear when reading the parallel sections in the private school edition. I also recommend "Origins Research", a periodical put out by Students for Origins Research, PO Box 203, Goleta CA 93116. If you are an educator you can receive it free by writing on your letterhead. (This is the same outfit that Ray Miller is beavering away for at the moment). -- "When evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve" Bill Jefferys 8-% Astronomy Dept, University of Texas, Austin TX 78712 (USnail) {allegra,ihnp4}!{ut-sally,noao}!utastro!bill (uucp) bill%utastro.UTEXAS@ut-sally.ARPA (ARPANET)