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From: faustus@ucbcad.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: "Majority" rule
Message-ID: <2756@ucbcad.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 28-Oct-84 11:35:25 EST
Article-I.D.: ucbcad.2756
Posted: Sun Oct 28 11:35:25 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 30-Oct-84 01:29:40 EST
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Organization: UC Berkeley CAD Group, Berkeley, CA
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>> Now, if you deny the government's power to collect taxes from you, you
>> are denying the importance of this function of government. If a government
>> cannot tax the people to carry out its functions, it loses all of its
>> power. Before you can justify not paying taxes, you should try to first 
>> argue that we could get along without any form of government, and I don't
>> think you will have much success.
>> 
>> 	Wayne
> 
> In that case, Wayne, however did the U.S. Government survive in
> the 130 years or so *before* it had a personal income tax!?!

It made money through other taxes. Are you going to claim that it is ok
to tax property, but not income? I'd be interested in seeing the reasoning
behind this. But the fact is that government has come to be responsible
for a great deal more now than it was in the 1920's, and whether or not
we should have income tax depends upon whether you can show that we would be
better off without these things.

> Arguing that tax collection is a function of government sounds
> pretty odd to me - taking your money is a function of a robber,
> but I've never seen that used as an argument that robbers are
> good things.  

You people sound like a broken record sometimes. Can't you think of any
more interesting analogies to make than "Government taxation is theft"?
If you define theft as "taking money from people without their consent",
then the argument will have to become, "Is government theft a good thing?",
or, "Are we better off having government stealing our money?" I think so,
but using this sort of language is sort of misleading. (You can call taxation
theft, but I will use the term "paranoid anti-social spoiled children" to
refer to libertarians.) 

The whole problem, though, is that libertarians think that individual
liberty is the highest good, and I think that a better society is the
highest good. (Although certainly not in the manner of Ellsworth Toohey.)
You can take your pick -- all I want to argue is that if you accept that
society is more important than absolute liberty for the individual, the
sort of government I am advocating is the best.

	Wayne