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From: faustus@ucbcad.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: "Majority" rule
Message-ID: <2777@ucbcad.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 7-Nov-84 01:02:55 EST
Article-I.D.: ucbcad.2777
Posted: Wed Nov  7 01:02:55 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 03:19:37 EST
References: <461@unmvax.UUCP> <22400028@ea.UUCP>
Organization: UC Berkeley CAD Group, Berkeley, CA
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> > The whole problem, though, is that libertarians think that individual
> > liberty is the highest good, and I think that a better society is the
> > highest good. (Although certainly not in the manner of Ellsworth Toohey.)
> > You can take your pick -- all I want to argue is that if you accept that
> > society is more important than absolute liberty for the individual, the
> > sort of government I am advocating is the best.
> 
> 	Wayne
> 
> I don't think that individual liberty is the highest good, I think that "a
> better society" is the highest good. Of course, my definition of "a better
> society" and yours is probably different. I feel that restricting liberty
> is generally (but not always) bad; bad enough that it offsets many goods
> that can come from it.
> 
> Maybe we should decide what "a better society" is, then we can worry about
> whether taxation helps or hinders that goal? Better yet, we can even
> consider whether there are better ways to finance government than through
> taxation (I think the answer is yes, and even have some suggestions).
> 
> 	<mike

Well, let me try to make the issue clearer. I believe that the best society
is one where the following things will be maximized (or some combination of
them will be maximized, where they conflict):

	Personal freedom
	Freedom from misery (poverty, crime, etc)
	Scientific progress
	Overall prosperity
	Cultural variety and richness
	(and other things...)

I don't think that any one of these can be raised to the level of an
absolute goal. If we make personal freedom the only goal, then others
(most notably freedom from misery) will suffer. On the other hand, if
we try to run a state on a centralized communist-like system, then security
becomes the highest goal, but personal freedom becomes scarce.

Some changes that I think should be made in our political system to make
it closer to the sort of system where these things are maximized are:

	Abolition of victimless crimes
	Massive tax reform (flat rate taxes not exceeding 25%, etc)
	Deregulation of many regulated industries
	Denationalization of things like the postal system
	Rationalization of the legal system to provide more benefits for
		the victims

Some things that Libertarians want done away with that I think should stay are:

	Police and fire protection
	Consumer protection regulation
	Some sort of "safety net" type of welfare system
	Support for the sciences and the arts
	Taxes

As for taxation, if you have any ideas on how else to get money, I'd like
to hear them. I think that the income tax is the most fair method for
the government to raise money, but if you can think of something else that
would work I'd be all for it.

	Wayne