Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site qantel.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!qantel!ken From: ken@qantel.UUCP (Ken Nichols@ex6193) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Replies to Ken (morality and religion) Message-ID: <256@qantel.UUCP> Date: Tue, 23-Oct-84 18:49:33 EDT Article-I.D.: qantel.256 Posted: Tue Oct 23 18:49:33 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 24-Oct-84 19:18:26 EDT References: <1376@pucc-h> Organization: MDS Qantel, Hayward, CA Lines: 105 Laurie writes: > Now there you go again, Ken.... > > After you stated that my friend was right in saying that even though I had > a strong set of morals, I would burn in hell if I didn't accept jesus christ > as my saviour; I wondered 'now, how would he react if I had said that she > told me that I was worshipping a false messiah, and if I didn't accept > Mohammed as the one true prophet of islam, I would most certainly burn in an > infidel's hell'. All of a sudden, it becomes different, if it isn't > your brand of religion someone is spouting... Did Mohammed rise from the dead? No, I don't think so. Jesus Christ did. > Now, to the idea that I was born to rebelliousness. I thought the Catholic > (as opposed to catholic) church had the patent on original sin. My mistake. To my knowledge, all Judeo-Christian religions teach the doctrine of original sin. That's about the only thing they agree on. > At least we've gotten rid of the concept of limbo. now god decides whether > you have been searching for him/her/it/them, and probably whether you have > been searching hard enough... more bizarre criterion.... If a man has an open heart to the gospel, he will be shown the true way to God. I could get into predestination here, but that is a very hard doctrine to understand. > Now to the 'fast-food save-the-masses' as provided by the graduating seniors > (anyone want to guess which church I'm talking about? hint: it is in the > Chicago area). Who cares what church they were from? > Most of those people had no higher brain functions left by the > time they were to graduate from high school. If you tried to engage them in > any debate in theological issues (since 85% of the town is Catholic, the > people there really didn't apprciate Baptists trying to convert their > children at the tennis courts), their only response was quoting non-related > items out of the bible (new testment only...), and when you beat down their > arguments on that, they just resorted to calling you a demon or such, and > letting you know that you were gonna get yours. There responses did not make sense to you, but they might have if you had been shown by the Holy Spirit what they meant. The things of the Bible are spiritually appraised. If you refused to listen to there response, they did not have to continue to tell you anymore (although they shouldn't have been so vile). > Nothing like being told that > the nuns at one's grade school (I was never a member of the Catholic church > BTW, it was mostly guilt by association) were messing with the priests and > brothers, to make you really want to like these people... My pastor is an ex-catholic, and he can tell you that the things above could have been true. He saw things such as these in the Catholic Church > So, you say that man shouldn't make the standards, because once you have > accepted *the lord* into your life, god will show you what standards to > follow? Gee, some (heck most) of the people I have met who have been > 'saved' have been some of the most spiteful, nasty, back-stabbing ... well > you get the idea...Come on now... tell me about those lovely people who > spout the gospel at one instance and then give you a bad work review because > you refused to go to Wednesday bible meetings before work (a non-sectarian > company, and it didn't happen to me, but happened to a friend of mine). > A president of a company, while getting on the cases of those who are (gasp) > 'living in sin' bellowing out in a meeting that 'We should have taken care > of those damn jews when we had a chance' (he didn't like the foreign > competition). > These are examples of people acting nicer *after* they have accepted > *the lord*. I wouldn't have wanted to meet them before they did.... Just because someone now knows the right standards doesn't mean they can live up to then any better on their own strength. Only reliance on the strength of Jesus Christ will cause them to live even close to His standards. I think I remember saying that nooone can ever measure up to God's standards while on this earth. His standard is perfection. Who ever said that Christians don't sin? Most of the time a Christian's sin is more obvious than a non-beleivers because he is supposed to have 'seen the light'. Excepting Jesus doesn't make anyone less human. Nor does it give anyone the attributes of God. You cannot throw out the whole reality of Christiandom because a few hypocrites have spoiled your life. > You know, Ken (and others) every year during Holy Week in Spain, they have > massive groups of men called 'flagelantes'. They put on hoods, and > walk the streets during processionals, beating themselves with ropes and > chains, trying to make amends for all the sins they have committed in the > past year. At the same time, groups of men are fighting down the street > over who has the best float.. Best of both worlds..... > > Laurie Sefton > {harpo,ihnp4,allegra,decvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h!afo > "Lifemate! Friend of my body and my soul! I will be with you forever!" People do this because they think it is the body that sins. The mind sins, then the body follows after. The sin of rebelliousness against God takes place more in the mind than the body, so beating the body into submission does nothing to appease God's wrath. We must make our minds pure before Him, and the only way to do this is through the grace of Jesus Christ. "...holding forth the Ken Nichols word of life..." Phil. 2:16 ...!ucbvax!dual!qantel!ken ----------