Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84 chuqui version 1.7 9/23/84; site nsc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!gatech!nsc!chuqui From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Zonker T. Chuqui) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Replies to Ken (morality and religion) Message-ID: <1731@nsc.UUCP> Date: Sun, 28-Oct-84 15:01:44 EST Article-I.D.: nsc.1731 Posted: Sun Oct 28 15:01:44 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 30-Oct-84 01:26:57 EST References: <1376@pucc-h> Organization: The Warlocks Cave, Castrovalva Lines: 83 > After you stated that my friend was right in saying that even though I had > a strong set of morals, I would burn in hell if I didn't accept jesus christ > as my saviour; I wondered 'now, how would he react if I had said that she > told me that I was worshipping a false messiah, and if I didn't accept > Mohammed as the one true prophet of islam, I would most certainly burn in an > infidel's hell'. All of a sudden, it becomes different, if it isn't > your brand of religion someone is spouting... It is, of course, intuitively obvious-- It would be incredibly silly for me to worship a false God, therefore my God is the right God and you are wrong. Case closed, no discussion needed (this, of course, was echoed very closely in one episode by Archie Bunker on 'All in the Family'). Every person MUST believe that their God is the right God, or their faith becomes meaningless. Unfortunately, there are some insecure souls in the world who need to prove their own faith by converting everyone else to it as well. I mean, if nobody disagrees with me, I HAVE to be right, no? (well, no, but that's beside the point). I find it very difficult to understand WHY the Christian pantheons have such a problem with the existence of other forms of the same God. There were societal reasons why your God came down to you the way He did when He did, and why you worship Him the way you do. Those reasons are totally inadequate for other times, places and societies. Do you honestly think that your God isn't smart enough to modify his actions to make Himself accessible to all peoples in ways they can accept and enjoy? Do you really think that He would create humanity in all its diverse splendor only to try to narrow it down to a single worshipful viewpoint and the accompanying narrowing of diversity of their lives? If you do, I think you are seriously underestimating the visions of God. Face it. God doesn't want us all to be Christians, or Catholics, or Jews, or Zen Buddists. God wants us to be people. The political beauracracies of the organized religions all want us to be members of their organized religions because they can then control and modify our behavior to fit their uses. They want us to conform, because they want us to do it their way, not God's way. My biggest complaint with the Bible is that it is a work that has been modified through time by those in power to assist them in keeping power and augmenting it. It has been mis-quoted, taken out of context, used, defiled, and ignored all in the name of power. I don't need someone telling me what my God wants of me or how to run my life, my God tells me directly. The idea is to learn to listen to the voice of God that is inside you rather than the voices of the pulpits that are trying to tell you that an infinite and all-powerful being needs to have self-appointed representatives interpret what they think He meant (seriously, did you God tell you that this person was His personal representative to you because He was too busy to deal with you directly? Do you really want to worship someone who is too busy for you?) > So, you say that man shouldn't make the standards, because once you have > accepted *the lord* into your life, god will show you what standards to > follow? Gee, some (heck most) of the people I have met who have been > 'saved' have been some of the most spiteful, nasty, back-stabbing ... well > you get the idea... Tolerance, Laurie, tolerance. Don't drop to their level-- remember, they may have been 'saved' by a false god and know not that what they do is wrong. If they open their heart, they will realize that intolerance is one of the greatest sins that has ever been created... I want to make one final note on all of this before I let the flamers at it. I'm not a Christian nor do I believe that the Bible is the word of God. I do celebrate Christmas because there are many (many, many!) good teachings in the words of Jesus of Nazareth if only people could forget some of the dogmatic religious materials that surround them. The same can be said for the teachings of Lao Tze, of Buddah, of Islam, or Zoroaster, of the pantheons of Greece and Rome and the Nordic areas. If you must label me, the label Zen Druid fits, I guess. I'm not attempting to tell any single person out there that they should NOT be a Christian but should be a Zen Druid. If you are happy worshipping your God as a Christian and it helps you be a better person, I have nothing but happy thoughts for you. I only ask the same tolerance of you-- I was NOT happy as a Christian, it was not until I realized that I needed to worship my Gods directly, rather than through appointed representatives, that I found what I was looking for. It worked for me, you do what works for you, and what really matters is that He would love to see us all do something other than bicker about who's God is the right God. The answer is simple, you know-- they all are. NOT happy k -- From the Department of Bistromatics: Chuq Von Rospach {cbosgd,decwrl,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA I'd know those eyes from a million years away....